The Murder of Todd Schumacher | Part 2

On January 18, 2015, family of then 40 ear-old Todd Schumacher went to his home to check on him, because he had not been feeling well and he was distraught over his missing dog. When they arrived, they found themselves in a horrific crime scene.

While one person was knocking on the front door of the house, another saw a person look out the window at the top of the door that appeared to be Todd’s boyfriend, Matthew. They knocked on the front door and the back door, but nobody answered. They went to the carport door, through which they could see splatters of blood inside. After they broke into the house through the back door, they found "blood everywhere' in the kitchen.

They went to the bedroom and saw the "Please send to heaven Todd + Matt." written in blood on the bedroom wall. Todd was lying naked on the floor "with chunks of flesh taken out of his body." They felt Todd's neck for a pulse and found that he was dead. Matthew was lying on the bed and fidgeting with something silver in his hand. 

Join The Murder Police Podcast as lead homicide detective Rob Wilson details the investigation of this brutal domestic violence homicide, with curious ties to animal cruelty.

The Murder of Todd Schumacher | Part 1 | Tuesday January 10, 2023

The Murder of Todd Schumacher | Part 2 | Tuesday January 24, 2023

The Murder of Todd Schumacher | Part 3 | Tuesday February 7, 2023

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Transcript

00:00:01:05 - 00:00:22:11

Rob Wilson

Like I say, he he was there alone with after the victim was deceased for several hours. I mean, we're talking a long time. Just laid him in bed with him. And we also found written in blood. Please send to heaven. Todd and Matt.

00:00:22:17 - 00:00:50:14

Wendy Lyons

Warning: The podcast you're about to listen to may contain graphic descriptions of violent assaults, murder and adult language. Listen. Our discretion is advised. Welcome to the Murder Police podcast, the murder of Todd Shoemaker. Part two.

00:00:56:13 - 00:00:58:18

David Lyons

Well, first of all, any idea how long they'd been? A couple?

00:00:59:13 - 00:01:03:17

Rob Wilson

About half a year, according to relatives and Mr. Donahue himself.

00:01:03:21 - 00:01:07:27

David Lyons

Any legal history of domestic violence? No. I was always curious about there.

00:01:07:27 - 00:01:26:13

Rob Wilson

Was an interesting issue about this case. The couple shared a dog. It was primarily Mr. Schumacher's name, Monroe. And there was an argument. This was a couple of weeks before the murder. Mr. Donahue had gotten angry at Mr. Schumacher, taken his dog and put it in the oven and turned the oven on.

00:01:27:15 - 00:01:31:11

Wendy Lyons

Oh, wow. Yeah. So he killed the dog?

00:01:31:16 - 00:01:44:07

Rob Wilson

No, they got the dog out in time. Then the animal control got involved and oddly enough, worked with us on the homicide. I'd never work with animal control, in my estimation.

00:01:44:07 - 00:01:44:19

David Lyons

Yes.

00:01:45:05 - 00:01:46:01

Rob Wilson

They know their stuff.

00:01:46:06 - 00:01:51:14

Wendy Lyons

So did Matthew stab the dog in the same time as he was stabbing Todd was? Or was the dog?

00:01:51:27 - 00:01:53:13

Rob Wilson

We. We never found Monroe.

00:01:54:12 - 00:01:55:02

Wendy Lyons

Oh, wow.

00:01:55:07 - 00:01:58:05

David Lyons

So do you remember who you worked with? With animal control?

00:01:58:09 - 00:02:18:17

Rob Wilson

No. She was fairly new, and I was super impressed because we had a suppression hearing in this case, like we always do. I forget what evidence they tried to suppress, but she showed up at the suppression hearing, and I was like, Hey, what are you doing? He's like, I no, I just want to learn because I may have to go through one of these one time.

00:02:18:17 - 00:02:29:26

Rob Wilson

And it's rare that people will take time out of their current job in assignment to go watch something else in hopes of learning something to maybe advance their career. So it was a very I was very impressed with her.

00:02:30:13 - 00:02:51:08

David Lyons

I'm trying to think of how to pronounce her first name, and I feel awful about this because she's probably listening. JJ And yes, yeah, yeah. And I feel awful about that because I've actually been in communication with her on the case. Oh, really? And where I do is I think she's agreed to do it is to come in and do an epilog on it on animal abuse and how that translates.

00:02:51:08 - 00:02:52:02

Rob Wilson

Absolutely.

00:02:52:03 - 00:03:03:08

David Lyons

Because she is really sharp. The author a little bit. When there were some conversations when I was on the command staff about warrant service and things like that, and we were trying to coordinate and you know, in your right, she's she's a detective.

00:03:03:09 - 00:03:22:06

Rob Wilson

Yes, she I remember she, I think, gave me a call on down the road after that, just asking for advice and very impressed with her because, heck, at the time, we we try to get young detectives to come watch testimony, you know, like, I'm busy. I can't make it. But for her to. Certainly not obligated in any way.

00:03:22:06 - 00:03:25:29

Rob Wilson

That was just her own self motivation to learn things and become better at her job.

00:03:26:00 - 00:03:42:11

David Lyons

Yeah. Hopefully we get her on here. Yeah, it would be a great epilog to this to kind of fold into that because there are relationships between people who do very evil things to animals and and what they might do to people. So and I think she'd be the ideal person from animal control to come and speak of that.

00:03:42:11 - 00:03:46:28

Wendy Lyons

So yeah so Monroe was never found. Did you did you ever ask Matthew about Monroe?

00:03:47:00 - 00:04:11:23

Rob Wilson

Yeah, He. He made a comment about the dog. Must have gotten out at some point, but like I say, he, he was there alone with after the victim was deceased for several hours. I mean, we're talking a long time. Just laid him in bed with him. And we also found written in blood. Please send to heaven Todd and Matt.

00:04:12:08 - 00:04:13:08

David Lyons

Oh, Lord. Where was that?

00:04:13:08 - 00:04:15:03

Rob Wilson

Written it on the bedroom wall.

00:04:16:19 - 00:04:17:09

Wendy Lyons

Wow.

00:04:17:15 - 00:04:48:20

Rob Wilson

Yeah. So, Mr. Donoghue has had some real issues. Um, as Dave and I were talking before the podcast started, that he had a juvenile record that was sealed that I couldn't get into. And when they're sealed like that at such a young age, typically it's something really bad. And I wound up of course this made the news is most homicides in Lexington do.

00:04:48:27 - 00:05:05:29

Rob Wilson

I ran into a schoolteacher. Did I ask if I was the one handling that case? And I said, yes, I was. I was like, well, how do you what's your interest? She's like, Well, I was a teacher of Matthew, don't I? And she's like, Yeah, I had to give statements about something that he did that I'm still not allowed to talk about.

00:05:06:17 - 00:05:17:05

Rob Wilson

And she said that as a young child or student, this is elementary school. She was scared of him. Wow. So he had some severe mental issues.

00:05:17:21 - 00:05:32:20

David Lyons

He's he had mental issues. But to keep it straight a little bit, yeah. They he was evaluated because we'll get to this in a minute. But I just wanna make sure we're clear on the idea that that that was sorted out in court before he actually stood trial obviously.

00:05:32:20 - 00:06:00:07

Rob Wilson

Yeah. It's just a and Dave, we dealt with people with mental issues and you can be a full blown paranoid schizophrenic. Those are pretty easy to spot. But it's the sociopaths, the borderline personality disorders that you start to pick up on if you dealt with them enough. And just an immature guess, I'd say he has borderline personality disorder, very manipulative, very intelligent.

00:06:01:00 - 00:06:23:29

Rob Wilson

He played the victim role very, very well. And luckily we had the evidence at the scene because, again, you can do this for 50 years and get a read on somebody and be wrong. That's why we need evidence to convict people. You know, I don't ever want to go on my gut and I don't like not believing individuals I'm interviewing because I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again.

00:06:24:07 - 00:06:39:06

Rob Wilson

But it's so nice to have that evidence tucked away from the scene that, you know, that you can, you know, poke holes in their story with. But now he was very convincing. He played the victim well, very, very well. But I just knew he was lying.

00:06:40:11 - 00:06:48:17

Wendy Lyons

Wow. So you get your confession from him and I'd say admission. Yeah, admission. And then and.

00:06:48:24 - 00:06:52:28

David Lyons

Well, in the interim, too, after that, you talked about the autopsy. Did you attend the autopsy?

00:06:52:29 - 00:07:10:00

Rob Wilson

I did not. We were still doing stuff with the investigation. That's typically the next day. So forensic service detectives go up and that's when they told me the count was over 100. So I was I was floored at that. And he had them all over his body from the top of his head to his feet.

00:07:10:09 - 00:07:21:05

David Lyons

Did they have any information in this goes back? A So if you don't remember, that's okay. Do they have any information about death or did the knife help make contact? You know what I'm talking about. Is it? Yeah, a lot of times no serrated sense.

00:07:21:07 - 00:07:34:18

Rob Wilson

Yeah, it was. We believe the murder weapon was just a regular kitchen steak knife, probably like, five inches long. And several of the the stab wounds, especially to the abdomen, were very, very deep.

00:07:34:24 - 00:07:37:25

David Lyons

Was the murder weapon at the scene? It was. Okay, cool.

00:07:38:09 - 00:07:49:13

Wendy Lyons

And also, you know, I was wondering with that many, you know, how long did Todd endure this before he passed?

00:07:49:13 - 00:07:52:00

Rob Wilson

There's no way of knowing because hopefully the first one was.

00:07:52:00 - 00:07:52:18

Wendy Lyons

You would have.

00:07:52:19 - 00:07:58:26

Rob Wilson

Got an artery and he bled out quickly, because if not, you know, that's that's a horrible, horrible, torturous.

00:07:58:29 - 00:08:02:09

Wendy Lyons

Way to to it's something to endure that's awful.

00:08:02:09 - 00:08:19:14

Rob Wilson

Well, and again, I do believe just because of the size difference between the two, um, he attacked him while he was laying on the couch or sleeping. So that's where he got in. Probably several, um, devastating wounds. And then the rest was all just rage.

00:08:20:14 - 00:08:29:01

David Lyons

It coming back to the interview, did he ever move off that last point of self-defense and a couple hits? Did he ever hint or anything? No.

00:08:29:01 - 00:08:51:18

Rob Wilson

Um, it wound up when we were starting to confront him about the multiple stab wounds. Like, where did this happen and why? Why was the back of his calf stabbed? Um, he again, like, I'm just so exhausted. I probably do need an attorney at this point. So he lawyered up for the second time. And at that point, yeah, he he didn't want to talk anymore.

00:08:51:18 - 00:08:59:03

Rob Wilson

So we respected his constitutional rights and shut the interview down, filled out the paperwork for murder, and sent him down to the Fair County Detention center.

00:08:59:05 - 00:09:03:02

David Lyons

Yeah. Before you sent him, did you all, like, scissors, clothing or anything? Is that a practice?

00:09:03:05 - 00:09:26:12

Rob Wilson

Yeah, we did that. And during the interview, you can hear he's complaining because we have bags over his hands that are taped, so he can't wash off any blood or anything like that. So we took precautions with that. Once he got to the hospital, his hands were were bagged by FSU and yeah, we certainly we had a jumpsuit for him, got him in a jumpsuit and took all his clothes for forensic examination.

00:09:26:27 - 00:09:27:10

David Lyons

Gotcha.

00:09:27:20 - 00:09:31:12

Wendy Lyons

Did he ever say why he dragged tired all the way back to the bedroom?

00:09:32:00 - 00:10:04:06

Rob Wilson

Uh, he loved him. Just wanted to be with him. So is moment where he just snapped for whatever reason, and we'll never know. But then reality sets in after that. His five minute version of a struggle, and he probably realized that I can't lie my way out of this. So he went back there, lied with him, and probably did some thinking about how can I concoct a story around this in the best he could come up with, you know, to unknown intruders.

00:10:04:06 - 00:10:10:05

Rob Wilson

There is no way he could clean that house, get rid of the body and say, Nah, Todd, he just left to go get Cigarets. And I never saw him again.

00:10:10:05 - 00:10:21:10

David Lyons

Yeah, because the couch cushion flip was kind of a modest attempt, as it is. Kind of. Yeah, right. To be honest, probably that, too. Is that the idea of lying with him for that long term?

00:10:21:17 - 00:10:32:09

Wendy Lyons

Well, I'm just thinking the schematics of it with the size difference. How did he drag him that far and get him up in the bed? Yeah, that's six, seven inches difference in height. Mm hmm.

00:10:32:13 - 00:10:52:16

Rob Wilson

Well, dragging him wouldn't have been too hard, but getting him on the bed probably would have been a struggle because horrible to say, but dead weight is difficult to to move around. But yeah, it's and that's where I think he probably did a halfhearted attempt to take his own life too. He saw there was he's probably there's no way he's getting out of this.

00:10:53:08 - 00:10:59:00

Rob Wilson

But then I think he was surprised by the family showing up and had to go with that that story.

00:10:59:05 - 00:11:00:11

Wendy Lyons

To reconstruct it.

00:11:00:11 - 00:11:01:00

Rob Wilson

Yeah. Yeah.

00:11:01:10 - 00:11:03:24

David Lyons

So he had handed that story to the family, I guess.

00:11:03:24 - 00:11:08:04

Rob Wilson

Yeah, to the family and then to the initial officers at the scene.

00:11:08:04 - 00:11:17:15

David Lyons

It so the autopsy gets completed, you get that new information. Part wasn't a surprise because of the amount of damage there and whatnot. Neat that you recovered the knife in the scene.

00:11:17:15 - 00:11:24:26

Rob Wilson

Yeah. It's again, I just think I would imagine he was just overwhelmed with trying to figure out a way out of it.

00:11:24:26 - 00:11:35:10

Wendy Lyons

Well, I'm sure the knife was probably the least of his thinking. Where is he going to put it or hide it? I mean, unless he's going to vacate the the residence to take it somewhere. I mean, there's only so many places you can hide that night.

00:11:35:10 - 00:11:59:27

David Lyons

Yeah. It, it, yeah. They don't think that through too good. Have only seen one time we had a murder of a Willard Street I think one time and then they actually called a guy and he reminded me of a wolf in Pulp Fiction. He was a cleanup artist and he. He had cleaned the apartment. It was a stabbing so well that the first run through FSU really didn't detect anything until they got a statement and then went start pulling the toenail where it was out and stuff.

00:11:59:27 - 00:12:00:11

Rob Wilson

Yeah.

00:12:01:00 - 00:12:16:14

David Lyons

But I remember Craig Sorrell interviewed him and it was like a it was like talking to Wolf and folks. And he's like, he goes, first thing I told him, get all the silverware. And they're like, Why do I have to throw all the silverware, everything else? Because there's one piece missing. You get all the silverware. And it's funny, but not funny.

00:12:16:14 - 00:12:22:24

David Lyons

But that's a real life thing, too. So it anytime you do that, you have to be willing to take those extra steps, I guess.

00:12:22:24 - 00:12:42:29

Rob Wilson

Yeah. Now that's I remember I think it was the Alex Johnson case where he was in the garage. That's where they put him in the barrel to transport him down to the river. And we did some swabs to see if we could find any blood. And there was such a small amount on the railing of the garage door.

00:12:43:13 - 00:12:48:14

Rob Wilson

And I think Marcy Adkins at the lab, who you all had on before, who's fantastic, who's.

00:12:48:14 - 00:12:49:01

David Lyons

Amazing.

00:12:49:08 - 00:12:51:27

Rob Wilson

She solved a lot of murders for me that I take credit for.

00:12:52:02 - 00:12:52:19

David Lyons

Sure. Yeah.

00:12:53:04 - 00:12:54:01

Rob Wilson

As all cops do.

00:12:54:01 - 00:12:54:08

David Lyons

Yeah.

00:12:54:09 - 00:12:55:19

Wendy Lyons

She's like, love hearing that.

00:12:56:03 - 00:12:57:00

David Lyons

And she will.

00:12:57:02 - 00:12:57:19

Rob Wilson

Yes, she.

00:12:57:19 - 00:12:57:26

Wendy Lyons

Will.

00:12:57:26 - 00:13:12:26

Rob Wilson

Marcy, Marcy in the lab has been so good to me over the course of my career. So many people. Matthew Clements, who's in Ballistics, you know, I could call them at any time. And if it was legit enough reason, they jumped me to the it's close to the front of the line as they could.

00:13:12:28 - 00:13:27:03

David Lyons

That's a relationship that you give people and it makes her. Yeah, she's going to be back and a bell. Breslin will be back and we're in. Try to get him through when we're done and cry or weep and in but Bill and Marcy have agreed to do one and I'm I can't disclose what it's about but it's a serial offender.

00:13:27:09 - 00:13:28:19

Rob Wilson

Yeah a very scary guy We.

00:13:28:19 - 00:13:39:00

David Lyons

Have very spooky And she is brilliant. Yes. She has the ability to I think for our audience, especially as she can take that into layman's terms so quickly and make people understand.

00:13:39:01 - 00:13:47:27

Rob Wilson

What Marcy was. She's one of those where she could have easily translated, transferred from the lab and she could have been a homicide detective in a very good.

00:13:47:27 - 00:13:51:10

David Lyons

Absolutely. Yes. So her linear and analytical thinking is right?

00:13:51:12 - 00:13:53:07

Rob Wilson

Yes. She would have been fantastic at that job.

00:13:53:22 - 00:13:56:02

Wendy Lyons

She's patting her own back right now, and she should be.

00:13:56:06 - 00:13:57:21

Rob Wilson

Yes, sure. Absolutely she should.

00:13:57:21 - 00:14:20:24

David Lyons

Yeah, exactly. So we get we get to the autopsy, we recover the knife and everything, and and he's done making no statements after that, correct? Yeah. And that gets tricky. A lot of people don't know. Maybe we'll do an educational show on Fourth Amendment and then moves and, you know, first enforcement, foremost Fifth Amendment, Sixth Amendment, all that kind of it's it's kind of convoluted as to how it gets more difficult to interview somebody longer there in in their first couple of weeks.

00:14:21:20 - 00:14:32:06

David Lyons

I guess what we're talking about now is what what kind of things went on in the aftermath after he goes to jail? What walk us through what the investigation looks like in the things that you're doing to tie this up.

00:14:32:06 - 00:14:56:21

Rob Wilson

Well, this one is actually really short and simple. Those domestics typically are you're not having to run down alternative suspects or anything like that. Like I mentioned before, we swab the heck out of the house. Turns out once he admitted that it was just he and Todd and he was the one that stabbed him all that blood and swabbed kind of became useless because we know the blood belongs to the victim.

00:14:56:21 - 00:15:03:20

Rob Wilson

Todd. And if there's fingerprints on things belonging to Matthew Donahue, then that doesn't tell us anything. He lived.

00:15:03:20 - 00:15:13:01

David Lyons

They're useless until you get on the stand. Yeah, right. Yeah, right. And then when you get cross-examined as to why you didn't do it. Yes. So it's perfunctory to some degree. Yes.

00:15:13:11 - 00:15:36:24

Rob Wilson

Do it. And you're always I had a murder case where we only collected 15 items and only sent off two or three items to be tested because it was a domestic as well. And I got grilled on the stand for cross-examination. I didn't send enough off to the lab, already had my mind made up, stuff like that. And it doesn't matter if I sent off 99 things to the lab, they'd say, Why didn't you send off a hundred?

00:15:37:11 - 00:15:41:23

Rob Wilson

You know, it's just a tactic that they use. And I understand they've got a job to do, right?

00:15:41:24 - 00:15:42:14

David Lyons

Absolutely. Yeah.

00:15:42:14 - 00:15:47:24

Rob Wilson

As long as you can articulate why you sent something off or why you didn't, you're fine.

00:15:47:28 - 00:16:06:29

David Lyons

Right? It's it's funny to how we're talking about a quick case because it's it's so isolated. And we were just listening to the the Culpable podcast the other night, Wendy, and season two where they're talking about the murder of Brittney Sykes in Ohio and really good investigators. You can tell it's an unsolved case, but I think they'll get there.

00:16:06:29 - 00:16:30:15

David Lyons

But one of them was talking about the challenge of a whodunit when what people think or tips or conjecture in theory, once that lands, because they're talking in that case about thousands of tips. Yeah, the guy that killed it, they allegedly killed the four kids in Idaho. I think they when they when they talk about having thousands of tips, I don't think some people understand that that's a thousand things.

00:16:30:15 - 00:16:31:25

Rob Wilson

That's a thousand interviews.

00:16:31:25 - 00:16:47:13

David Lyons

That's it at least. Yeah. And every one of them has to have a beau around them. Yeah. And that that's a big deal that I always try to get across to people is a tip is something that might move. But geez, or Pete, don't ever confuse that for a theory you had. Yeah I mean, don't don't don't paint that in a different way.

00:16:47:13 - 00:17:09:24

Rob Wilson

Well, I'm sure you had some cases. I've had several where you get to a point in the investigation where you kind of hit the end of the road and it's like, should we take this public, you know, put it on the news because you need their help, but you only want to viable tips because once it goes out that you will, you'll get 100 or 200 leads and you have to follow up on every single one.

00:17:09:24 - 00:17:11:02

David Lyons

Yeah, they've all got to be wrapped up.

00:17:11:02 - 00:17:23:22

Rob Wilson

Yeah. Because if you don't that one, if you have 200 tips and you only do 199, by the time it gets to trial, those defense attorneys will be convinced that that one person you didn't do was the real killer in we've wrongly arrested their client.

00:17:24:01 - 00:17:39:18

David Lyons

That's even if it's an unequivocal yes. I mean, it'd be neat for people to experience that to be on the stand when that happens. But even if it's an unequivocal I did it and the evidence is there, that's their job. And, you know, we've got great ones in town. I'm sure I'll bring down our defense attorneys more than once and I'll continue.

00:17:39:18 - 00:17:45:23

David Lyons

Yeah, they're amazing people, but it neat stuff. So in that case. Yeah, that wraps up pretty quick then.

00:17:46:02 - 00:17:56:23

Rob Wilson

So yeah, the investigation part is actually in. This one's probably done in 4 to 5 days and that's all the paperwork and everything, sending stuff off to the lab. Um.

00:17:57:07 - 00:18:04:28

David Lyons

So you get to kick your feet up on the desk because, like, obviously there's nothing else going on in town, right? Absolutely. That's it. Like maybe two or three years, you'll have it. I'm being facetious.

00:18:04:28 - 00:18:05:24

Wendy Lyons

Of course you are.

00:18:05:24 - 00:18:06:13

David Lyons

Exactly.

00:18:06:14 - 00:18:32:09

Rob Wilson

That is a then, you know, there's the gallows humor in homicide. You have to have it. But it's a good feeling when like you're next up and you finally get one ends, like, okay, this isn't a whodunit. I can solve it, wrap it up pretty quickly. And then I go to the back of the line, you know, and that's maybe you get lucky and your number is not called again for three months, four months.

00:18:32:21 - 00:18:40:25

Rob Wilson

So, you know, you're not busting your butt on this unsolved murder because those are the worst. When you get an unsolved and you're still killing yourself and then you get another one.

00:18:41:04 - 00:18:54:09

David Lyons

Which is the nature. Yes, that's it. That's where all that loose ends. I think about land speed record for one was a derby day where a guy got beat to death with a two by four, a third straight. And I think I was able to be back home in about 4 hours.

00:18:54:13 - 00:18:55:04

Rob Wilson

Yeah, those are nice.

00:18:55:04 - 00:19:08:07

David Lyons

Yeah, exactly. Had some some stuff to do afterwards. But I had somebody in custody, I had statements, I had the physical evidence recovered and we got to it. But yeah, that never happened again. And you're right. That's the raking leaves on a windy day yet always coming in.

00:19:08:07 - 00:19:14:04

Rob Wilson

It's a really good analogy because it it just doesn't stop. You just hope for a breather from time to time.

00:19:14:17 - 00:19:30:04

David Lyons

And I think if somebody gets into the business, I think it's a mistake they might make it. Don't ever think you're going to be done and kind of take it just it's the nature of the beast. But when you do leave to this day and I've been gone a long time, I still will be out doing something and I'll think about one of them that didn't lay down.

00:19:30:04 - 00:19:33:21

David Lyons

You just always like, if I could get back and do this, I'd never leave you.

00:19:33:26 - 00:20:06:16

Rob Wilson

I'm pretty lucky in that I think I've only have two unsolved in my career and I put them. I work them to exhaustion. Yeah, like it's just so I'm at peace with that. But I still get I've been gone over a little over a year now, and there's still some PTSD. Like when I hear a certain phone, a ring type that that was my ring when I was in Homicide at 3 a.m., I'd hear The Darling, and if I hear that exact ring, I just like it takes me back and I'm not happy about it exactly.

00:20:06:26 - 00:20:25:14

David Lyons

But I will say this I kind of miss it enough to where? Like, when we're talking about David Callum's family or we've met the Hastie family, which is south, a beautiful people that have a an adult son. We covered Michael Gourley that went missing and hasn't been seen and heard foul play all over that. There's also a part that makes sure.

00:20:26:05 - 00:20:28:01

Rob Wilson

You never gets away.

00:20:28:01 - 00:20:45:16

David Lyons

And that that's an inside thing that you're thinking. Wired Or like if I'm listening to a good podcast myself again, I'm going to pick culpable because it's really good. The entire time. I'm thinking, Boy, I would probably think about this. Yeah, it would be an avenue. So it's it's fun to think about, but you don't have to go in and do it and you're not, but you're not get paid for it.

00:20:45:16 - 00:21:07:09

Rob Wilson

So I think Travis Holt, who's a really good detective, I think he's running cold case now. Right. Very sharp guy. And I'm sure he'll do great at it. But I have seen other departments have a former homicide detectives come on as consultants and Florence Weathers is out there listening. You know, I'd be certainly happy to come back and review some cases because it is fun being part of it.

00:21:07:19 - 00:21:13:03

Rob Wilson

I just wouldn't be the main one responsible. I'd just give some ideas and maybe some guidance and see where it goes.

00:21:13:03 - 00:21:31:11

David Lyons

Yeah, I won't name any names, but I did get hit up by somebody several months ago and got to love him to death and he's not there anymore. But he had an idea of having a an event where a lot of us going back as far back as we could get together, spent an entire day and just talk about what's on that shelf.

00:21:31:13 - 00:21:37:13

David Lyons

Yeah. And I was like, brilliant. Well, that won't happen. No, it's like. But it was a neat, neat concept.

00:21:37:16 - 00:22:01:19

Rob Wilson

Well, when they asked me to take over the Cold Case unit, I had the idea that because I think at the time we had 50 maybe unsolved murders going back to the seventies or eighties, what I wanted to do was take six weeks, not do a damn thing, but read every case file and put them in categories. It's like, okay, these are potentially DNA cases, right?

00:22:01:20 - 00:22:20:05

Rob Wilson

Okay, we'll set these aside and when I get to them, I'll go through all the evidence and send a ton of stuff off to the lab. These are pounding the pavement cases like we need to reinterview some people, maybe some new ones that they missed. They go over here and then there's some that no fault of any detective.

00:22:20:05 - 00:22:37:06

Rob Wilson

Sometimes the bad guy wins, they get the breaks, and there's just hardly any sort of ability to those and set those aside so you can work on the ones that actually have a chance of getting solving. First thing you do is you send all those off to the lab and hopefully you get a phone call or two and six months.

00:22:37:06 - 00:22:51:16

Rob Wilson

It's like, Hey, now this, this belongs to so and so, you know, and there's the low hanging fruit, as they say. Sure. You know, it's like, give me those any day of the week. I don't need to beat my chest and say how great of an investigator I am saying, Now you give me a DNA hit and I'll go put the cuffs on.

00:22:52:01 - 00:23:01:14

David Lyons

That and look at what it does for the family. Absolutely. I mean, that and it it yeah. Whether it's low hanging fruit or hanging fruit, I think that the name of the game is a game is to see how many dollars you can get.

00:23:01:14 - 00:23:31:04

Rob Wilson

Yeah, we just I just finished up a couple pled guilty to a cold case murder that happened in 2010. Um, but, yeah, that's when I made contact with the victim's daughter. I knocked on her door and told her who I was, and she was like, Don't get me involved unless you believe you can solve this. Cause I'd already come to a certain amount of peace with it, right?

00:23:31:05 - 00:23:49:24

Rob Wilson

I don't want to live through it again if nothing's going to happen. And that's tough because I had it's not like I can't promise you anything. All I can promise you this. I'm going to give it my all and I'll keep you in the loop every step of the way. And I was I was fairly confident. I knew who did it.

00:23:49:24 - 00:23:59:10

Rob Wilson

And, you know, we had some avenues to go to get some some information. And luckily we were able to make it happen. But yeah, she was she was scared that I was opening up the case again, actually.

00:23:59:10 - 00:24:04:12

David Lyons

But everybody metabolisms metabolizes that a different way. And I could see that I could see where that.

00:24:04:13 - 00:24:19:14

Rob Wilson

Yeah, she's like, don't make me go through it again if nothing's going to happen. Right? So that was a real relief off my shoulders when we finally got the the arrest of the two individuals. And yeah, she was very grateful and, and also frustrated that it took 13 years, you know, absolutely crazy.

00:24:19:17 - 00:24:32:23

David Lyons

Well, let's go back to this one. Sure. It didn't take 13 it thank God for the family on that is where do we go now if a pretty, pretty quick investigation get some things back some lab work. You got your autopsy reports and everything. What happens next?

00:24:32:26 - 00:24:39:12

Wendy Lyons

Hey, you know, there's more to the story, so go download the next episode. Like the true crime fan that you are.

00:24:39:12 - 00:25:12:08

David Lyons

The Murder Police podcast is hosted by Wendy and David Lyons and was created to honor the lives of crime victims so their names are never forgotten. It is produced, recorded and edited by David Lyons. The Murder Police podcast can be found on your favorite Apple or Android podcast platform, as well as at Murder Police Podcast sitcom PM, where you will find show notes, transcripts, information about our presenters and a link to the official Murder Police Podcast merch store where you can purchase a huge variety of murder police podcast swag.

00:25:12:22 - 00:25:36:09

David Lyons

We are also on Facebook, Instagram and YouTube, which is closed captioned for those that are hearing impaired, just search for the Murder Police podcast and you will find us. If you have enjoyed this podcast. Please subscribe for more and give us five stars and a written review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you download your podcasts, make sure you set your player to automatically download new episodes so you get the new ones as soon as they drop.

00:25:36:22 - 00:25:40:03

David Lyons

And please tell your friends, lock it down, Judy.