The Murder of Lydia Blanche Cassady | Part 1 of 4

The Murder of Lydia Blanche Cassady | Part 1

Join Wendy and David as they talk to Carolyn Hundley, the sister of domestic violence murder victim Lydia Blanche Cassady.  Lydia was brutally murdered in Nicholasville Kentucky by her long-time partner in January 2022.  In episode 1, Carolyn shares just who Lydia was as a child and a mother.  We also hear what some of the first signs may have been that Lydia’s relationship with her killer could prove to be dangerous.

If you are a victim of Domestic or Partner Violence, please call your local police department or the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 800-799-7233.  You are not alone, and there are resources available to help you and your family.

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Transcript

The Murder of Lydia Blanch Cassady | Part 1 of 4

00;00;01;29 - 00;00;32;07

Carolyn Hundley

She was way different than I was, which I think all siblings are typically. But she was you know, my mom was very creative. Great baker or she was a professional cake digger for years. And Lydia got all of those genes. So cooking, baking. In fact, the first thing my son, my little guy said to me, who's going to make my birthday cake because she'd made his birthday cake every year morning.

00;00;32;12 - 00;01;25;11

Wendy Lyons

The podcast you're about to listen to may contain graphic descriptions of violent assaults, murder and adult language. Listener discretion is advised. Welcome to the Murder Police podcast, The murder of Lydia Cassidy, Part one and welcome back, listeners. Today we are going to talk to my good friend Carolyn Hundley about the brutal domestic violence murder of her beautiful sister, Lydia Cassidy, which happened on January five, 2022.

00;01;25;29 - 00;01;28;25

Wendy Lyons

Carolyn, thank you so much for coming to join us.

00;01;29;02 - 00;01;31;19

Carolyn Hundley

Thank you for having me. I feel really blessed to be here.

00;01;31;19 - 00;01;52;08

Wendy Lyons

Thank you. I'm sorry that we met under the circumstances that we did, but unfortunately, we met under very similar circumstances and we kind of both know what each other have gone through. And strangely enough, our incidences which brought us together happened literally one month and one day apart.

00;01;52;13 - 00;01;53;11

Carolyn Hundley

Yes. Yeah.

00;01;53;19 - 00;02;09;02

David Lyons

And I wanted to thank you too, for taking the time and having the courage to speak about something this painful. One of the goals that me and Wendy having is, is to let the people out there know Lydia is other than a number or something they saw on a flash and a news article because that's unfortunately what it is over her.

00;02;09;02 - 00;02;25;04

David Lyons

She was an individual and one more time to is back to Angie's case. If there's anything we can let people know about what the signs might look like and give people a little more courage to make the big moves in their lives that are very difficult. Hopefully that will be a message in this, too. So thank you again for coming.

00;02;25;04 - 00;02;35;14

Carolyn Hundley

Well, I appreciate it. And if again, to celebrate my sister, you know, just to keep her name recognized out there as well as if it keeps one other person from being six feet under.

00;02;35;15 - 00;02;37;18

David Lyons

Absolutely. So. Absolutely.

00;02;37;23 - 00;02;38;11

Carolyn Hundley

Absolutely.

00;02;38;22 - 00;02;42;06

Wendy Lyons

Well, Carolyn, start off by telling us a little bit about yourself.

00;02;43;05 - 00;03;10;25

Carolyn Hundley

Well, I have a family now of I have two boys. I have a little guy who's eight and a big guy who's 20. And we now have custody of my niece and nephew who are shortly will be 18 and just turned 17. So I have been in the hospitality business for about 25 years. So in and out of hotels, lodging and things like that.

00;03;10;25 - 00;03;11;04

Carolyn Hundley

So.

00;03;11;22 - 00;03;34;24

Wendy Lyons

Well, how neat. Well, and you know, I had the fortune of coming to your beautiful home, which I can't I was blown away when I saw your home. I've never seen a home like that. I don't know if you can't call it Pole Barn, because that's not what it is, but it's the most massive, amazing place that you have out there.

00;03;35;03 - 00;03;55;03

Wendy Lyons

And, you know, I don't know that I knew were in hospitality, but it all makes sense. That platter of food you had laid out for all of us when we got there, it was just so welcoming. And it was a tribute to to your sister. And it was just a really nice it was a very nice evening despite the circumstances that we were there.

00;03;55;04 - 00;04;08;25

Carolyn Hundley

Yeah. Yeah. My that's all due to my husband the, the pole barn and they call them barn. Dominion's. And so he, he's you know, we bought some land and he had a dream and we've created that dream and it's just a beautiful place, so.

00;04;08;26 - 00;04;09;24

Wendy Lyons

Oh, it's amazing.

00;04;09;24 - 00;04;24;07

Carolyn Hundley

And we look and, you know, you look back on it and you go, Gosh, we made it a little bit extra big, you know, with extra bedrooms for people to come and stay behind. Little did we know that this past year, you know, we would have two additional children in our home. So I think it was just a blessing.

00;04;24;07 - 00;04;33;17

Wendy Lyons

It was. And it worked out perfect. Well, why don't you tell us a little bit about Lydia. Tell us tell us who she was.

00;04;34;18 - 00;05;00;25

Carolyn Hundley

So Lydia was my little sister. So she was a about 11 years younger than I was. My mother had remarried my stepfather, and they didn't think they could have children. And so, poof, here comes Lydia. And so my mom was a lot older when she had Lydia. And so I think that's what made Lydia and I so close is because I kind of played a little bit of momma roles.

00;05;00;26 - 00;05;13;09

Carolyn Hundley

Sure. And so she was just when she was born, I think, up until she was like two or three, she was the colic baby. So everybody was like this. All she did was cry. Right now it's like, know, hopefully.

00;05;13;10 - 00;05;14;15

Wendy Lyons

Sure she does.

00;05;16;16 - 00;05;37;16

Carolyn Hundley

But she was also born with a heart defect and went back then, you know, in 82, you know, the heart world wasn't as advanced as it is today. And when she was born, I mean, my mom was told she may not make it till she's 21. And so we were constantly in and out of, you know, the hospital medicine.

00;05;37;16 - 00;05;55;17

Carolyn Hundley

I mean, even when she'd go get her teeth worked on, she'd have to have medicine, like just tons of antibiotics. And finally all the new wave and new heart stuff came about. And she was given a pig valve and she got a little bit older. And so she lived with the pig valve for a long time and then did a mechanical valve.

00;05;55;17 - 00;06;21;15

Carolyn Hundley

So how she died, she actually had a mechanical valve, but she was just she was always she younger sister, always tagging along anything we were doing. So she's probably a little older than she's probably should have been, especially with me. So she was hanging out with my friends, my, you know, where we went and what we did. And so, again, I think that's why, you know, it's kind of like, you know, kind of felt like you raised her because she was kind of part of kind of part of my world, really big time.

00;06;21;15 - 00;06;53;29

Carolyn Hundley

She was more she was way different than I was, which I think all siblings are typically. But she was you know, my mom was very creative. Great baker. She was a professional cake digger for years. And Lydia got all of those genes. So cooking, baking, the love for the outdoors. And, you know, she had a fascination and love for horses and, you know, and I would much rather be inside or if I'm outside, I'd rather be at a pool, you know.

00;06;54;27 - 00;07;22;07

Carolyn Hundley

But, you know, she was always kind of that outdoor nature and more of the inside cook. And, yeah, you know, just knew how to make something and the coolest things as she was so didn't matter what you got she could taste it and then make it Wow And so you know even things like sauces certain sauces and stuff and, you know, I remember one time getting takeout and going, oh, my gosh, they didn't put that to Ziggy sauce or whatever it was from the Greek restaurant.

00;07;22;07 - 00;07;31;00

Carolyn Hundley

She goes, Do you have this, this and this? And I'm like, Yeah, Oh, okay, give me a second. And I mean, taste just like it, you know? So she could be really good at that kind of stuff.

00;07;31;02 - 00;07;33;16

David Lyons

Big like a big threat to Kentucky Fried Chicken.

00;07;33;20 - 00;07;35;19

Carolyn Hundley

Yeah, exactly.

00;07;35;20 - 00;07;40;26

David Lyons

I'm picturing them with that. And of that case now that they used to toke that away, then. Incredible.

00;07;40;26 - 00;07;59;17

Carolyn Hundley

Yeah. Yeah. Very creative, creative, crafty. You know, you see something, she'd paint and stuff and, you know, she'd always go to those paint classes and things, you know, where they did the paint and the wine and all that. Then, you know, I would try to do something. It look like a kindergarten look like it came out of the art museum.

00;07;59;23 - 00;08;03;01

Carolyn Hundley

Like, okay, we see who got the creative genes here.

00;08;03;01 - 00;08;21;27

Wendy Lyons

So, so growing up with Lydia and I'm guessing, you know, like you said, you all had that age in between, you see, So I can see you were a mother figure. But also she she probably very much looked up to you and then you to her as as you all got older with with her creativity.

00;08;21;28 - 00;08;35;23

Carolyn Hundley

Oh, yeah. Well, and you always had her you know, it was like the you would partner of the two of us like, okay, every family event was like, okay, I'm, I need you to cook this and bake that and I'm going to get this and I'll make sure everybody's invited. And I was always the front person and she was always the person doing.

00;08;35;26 - 00;08;36;20

Wendy Lyons

All the work in the back.

00;08;37;02 - 00;08;54;01

Carolyn Hundley

And she was just great at making sure that everybody had, you know, the foods tasted great, the the cake was, in fact, the first thing my son, my little guy said to me, who's going to make my birthday cake? Oh, after when he said, oh, because she'd made his birthday cake every but she'd made my older son's birthday.

00;08;54;06 - 00;08;59;00

Carolyn Hundley

So that was like one of the first, you know. So I mean, that's how memorable her stuff was.

00;08;59;00 - 00;09;02;20

Wendy Lyons

So did you all grow up here in Nicholas Ville?

00;09;02;24 - 00;09;20;06

Carolyn Hundley

We actually grew up in Scott Well, I grew up in eastern Kentucky, and my mom and stepdad moved to Scott County, Georgetown, and he was with the phone company World, and we moved there. And that's where Lydia was born, in Georgetown. Well, actually in Lexington, but Georgetown.

00;09;20;07 - 00;09;21;09

Wendy Lyons

Grew up in Georgetown.

00;09;21;20 - 00;09;25;14

Carolyn Hundley

Yeah. So that's where she went to school, graduated.

00;09;25;14 - 00;09;45;25

Wendy Lyons

And so moving on into her adulthood. Tell us as she got older, prior to getting into this very volatile relationship with with kin Kin, strange to be exact. Had she dated much before then, or was he kind of her first real relationship?

00;09;46;17 - 00;10;06;07

Carolyn Hundley

She didn't date a whole lot. She had a lot of guy friends, you know, a lot of guys that, you know, was in her circle of friends. And then she, you know, right out of high school fell in love with a young guy and they got married and I think got married obviously a little too young. And so that didn't work out.

00;10;06;09 - 00;10;16;22

Carolyn Hundley

So about a month in, that came to a stop. And, you know, and that's when she actually met Ken. So and Ken was, you know, he's 14 years older than she. Oh, wow.

00;10;17;15 - 00;10;19;09

Wendy Lyons

How old was she when she met him?

00;10;19;09 - 00;10;28;20

Carolyn Hundley

Oh, that's a good question. Uh, it was 24 when she met him pretty late in 2004 after.

00;10;28;20 - 00;10;30;08

Wendy Lyons

So maybe 20.

00;10;30;08 - 00;10;31;05

Carolyn Hundley

20.

00;10;31;05 - 00;10;31;26

Wendy Lyons

Seven, eight.

00;10;31;28 - 00;10;38;15

Carolyn Hundley

Maybe she was born in 82. Oh, my math. So she she was like early 20 oh oh.

00;10;38;16 - 00;10;43;26

Wendy Lyons

She, she was young. Okay. So when they how did they meet and how they start dating.

00;10;44;03 - 00;11;08;02

Carolyn Hundley

Met at work. And I don't know that there was a whole lot of dating. I think they met at work. I think she was actually living with my husband and myself there in the interim. And from that, I think at that point it was you're kind of moving in with me. Oh. And so she actually moved right in into his house.

00;11;08;16 - 00;11;23;07

Carolyn Hundley

Yeah. And he had two older there were two older siblings by another another woman, and they were still within the home there, I think for the last year or so. So but he they moved in together. Yeah.

00;11;23;20 - 00;11;27;26

Wendy Lyons

And then they ended up having two children together that you now have.

00;11;27;27 - 00;11;41;15

Carolyn Hundley

Yeah. Pretty immediately I would say within 4 to 6 months she was pregnant with my nephew. Yeah. And he was born in 2005 and then my niece was born 13 months later in 2006.

00;11;42;18 - 00;11;45;01

Wendy Lyons

And she and Ken, they never married. They never.

00;11;45;01 - 00;11;47;27

Carolyn Hundley

Married. And he didn't want to be on their birth certificate.

00;11;48;22 - 00;11;52;17

Wendy Lyons

So did you did anybody ever figure out why?

00;11;53;07 - 00;12;13;26

Carolyn Hundley

I think it was probably twofold. I think, you know, Lydia said he didn't want to be on them because of any type of accountability. And the flip side was there was also some government more assistance that they could get because he was a truck driver. He made good money. So he wasn't going to be they they weren't going to be able to get any government assistance if he put his name on Yeshua.

00;12;14;04 - 00;12;20;17

Carolyn Hundley

So oddly enough, I'm not sure that I know a man that may not put their name on their children's.

00;12;20;19 - 00;12;28;04

David Lyons

It's still different. Yeah, even though I can, I can kind of see a strategic thing to it, but it's not a great strategic.

00;12;28;04 - 00;12;29;12

Wendy Lyons

Yeah. No it's.

00;12;29;14 - 00;12;34;28

David Lyons

Yeah, I think it's my personal opinion. No one guy's. Yeah. It's like the bailout option.

00;12;34;28 - 00;12;35;06

Carolyn Hundley

Yeah.

00;12;35;15 - 00;12;36;19

David Lyons

Yeah. Deniability.

00;12;36;20 - 00;12;40;28

Carolyn Hundley

You know, my husband would say, you know what, man? Don't put his name on his kids. Yes.

00;12;41;05 - 00;12;42;26

Wendy Lyons

So they don't have his last name.

00;12;43;15 - 00;12;47;06

Carolyn Hundley

They have my sister's last name right now.

00;12;47;11 - 00;12;52;25

Wendy Lyons

During this long courtship, they had. Had you all ever seen any problems, any red flags?

00;12;53;08 - 00;13;17;15

Carolyn Hundley

So we had very limited first access to him other than between her living with us and us trying to figure out what was going on with everything and then her immediately kind of moving in with him. There was a little bit of I think it was more like, I've got this thing like I'm grown up now, you know, I'm on my own or I'm going to get on my own.

00;13;17;25 - 00;13;32;28

Carolyn Hundley

And even to the point that my mother, you know, at first blush was, oh, this guy's older. He's more established, he's got a good job, he's got a home, you know, almost like he's going to be the knight, you know, the white knight in shining armor who.

00;13;32;28 - 00;13;33;23

Wendy Lyons

Saves the day.

00;13;33;23 - 00;13;55;28

Carolyn Hundley

That's right. And both my husband and I from point it, I mean, especially my husband was like, he's not a good guy. He's I mean, just, you know, kind of like what you were saying to David, you know, in reference to Angie, you know. Yeah. You kind of meet you totally are like and so, you know, there were there were some definite red flags in the beginning.

00;13;58;12 - 00;14;21;02

Carolyn Hundley

You know, at one point in between my nephews, my niece being born and my nephew was born, I remember driving home and we lived way out in the country at the time. And I remember my mother calling me and screaming on the phone when I answered the phone. And she's like, he's he said, he's coming home. He's driving home.

00;14;21;02 - 00;14;40;14

Carolyn Hundley

He's on the road. You know, his truck driver, he's he's coming home and he's going to kill her. And he is she's threatened. He's threatened to kill her. And I'm like, what? You need to calm down. And has she called the police? And and really nothing really came of that because, you know, I was kind of like, she needs get out of the house, right?

00;14;40;14 - 00;14;52;23

Carolyn Hundley

Please. She'd only be home. And then I think it all got kind of, I don't know, watered down or downplayed for my sister after that point, because I think, you know, she knew better. You know, I.

00;14;52;23 - 00;15;18;11

Wendy Lyons

Think they know that you get those reactions and they I feel like with Angie anyway, I felt like she deep down knew that I knew. So she didn't want to tell a lot because she knew my reaction. But, you know, like you said that your husband said, when I first met Angie's murderer, I came home and I told David I do not like him.

00;15;18;11 - 00;15;38;13

Wendy Lyons

There's something bad about him. And as soon as you met him, you also said, oh, that's he's not a good guy. Yeah, and I did voice that to her and she's, you know, kind of maybe like Lydia did. Maybe. I know Angie said, Oh, you're just being protective of me. You know, just give it time. You know? You really don't know.

00;15;38;13 - 00;15;49;10

Wendy Lyons

I'm. He's so nice. And I really think deep down they know, but they want so badly to be loved and needed.

00;15;49;10 - 00;16;03;01

David Lyons

There are some biases that come up. I think I've said it before, but a guy I used to work with, Charlie O'Connell, we lost him a couple of years ago. Rest in peace. But when I was a young police officer, I was riding with Charlie one night and he said, Maybe you can't argue with somebody that's drunk or in love.

00;16;03;14 - 00;16;15;12

David Lyons

And no true words have ever been spoken. So I think there's that built in confirmation bias that people have on. Yeah, they fall into advocacy so hard. That's why it's so hard to reach people. Yeah. Because like you said, one day they just want to be loved.

00;16;15;12 - 00;16;15;29

Wendy Lyons

Yes.

00;16;15;29 - 00;16;17;02

David Lyons

What this comes down to.

00;16;17;08 - 00;16;36;06

Carolyn Hundley

Well, and I think, you know, in a lot and what I see now that I've been diving into a little bit more, the domestic violence stuff, I mean, what I what I see out there, too, is, you know, just like my sister, she lacked self-confidence. She wasn't a good communicator. Like she struggled with that, like communicating like what she loved to do.

00;16;36;07 - 00;16;57;14

Carolyn Hundley

She was great at like, horses and all that stuff. And then at the end, her medical stuff. She was great at that piece. But communicating of this is a problem. Carolyn We need to like, you know, some of those those things came towards the very end, but not in the early. Yes. I think for her it was I've now found this man.

00;16;57;25 - 00;17;14;25

Carolyn Hundley

He's established mom likes him. He's going to take me away and take care of me and everything's going to be grand. And while anyone on the outside, most of us now excluding my mother at first, but I think as soon as we got into that first year, Mom was like.

00;17;15;15 - 00;17;16;26

Wendy Lyons

She started seeing it.

00;17;17;10 - 00;17;43;16

Carolyn Hundley

Yeah. And again, Mom, Mom died in 2017. And those last two years of my mother's life, I mean, she was calling him out publicly with the and I would literally when he would leave and they would leave, I'd look at mom and go, You're not making this any better. I get it that you've got something with him, but you're only making it worse for Lydia because she's not going be able to come here.

00;17;43;25 - 00;17;56;26

Carolyn Hundley

And that's exactly what happened. Yes. Two years of my mother's death, like they came on holidays, but they weren't allowed to kind of come and hang out and, you know, hang out with mama like they used to because he's gonna put a stop to that.

00;17;56;26 - 00;18;00;19

David Lyons

Well, that her intuition is on fire. Yeah. And then a protectiveness the.

00;18;00;19 - 00;18;06;00

Wendy Lyons

Mom and I'm guessing it probably was much like Angie that the phone calls would they'd sneak and make them.

00;18;06;00 - 00;18;06;14

Carolyn Hundley

Oh yeah.

00;18;06;23 - 00;18;28;00

Wendy Lyons

And then delete the call log or not the text. We went through that and you know, much like you said, Angie, you know, Angie was so confident with so many things. She was so, so smart. Kind of like your sister. Now, she did not have problems communicating anything as far as being outspoken. And I think that ultimately was her demise.

00;18;29;01 - 00;18;51;06

Wendy Lyons

But she, you know, had dealt with her weight for so long and she was heavy. Yeah. And I went through the whole gastric bypass. And then she felt so great because she lost £100. And that's what took us on our trip. That also caused problems. But, you know, he had her gaining weight again and getting more you know, she would never leave without being so dolled up and beautiful.

00;18;51;06 - 00;19;15;05

Wendy Lyons

And someone had sent me a picture of her at at a particular place and her hair wasn't fixed. She had no makeup on. Yeah, she gained weight back. And I think they beat them down so much. And maybe Lydia went through that as well. And then she stopped for a while, maybe like Lydia did, telling me of the problems.

00;19;15;05 - 00;19;36;08

Wendy Lyons

But then at the end, she's like, Look, this is what's going on. I need you to help me figure this out. Yeah. And and so I think they suppressed that. Maybe hoping. Yeah. And they wrote yes. And then when they see it, doesn't they in, they realize that it's bad. Yeah. Then they reach out for that help. And sadly, in both of our cases, it's too late.

00;19;36;11 - 00;19;36;20

Carolyn Hundley

Yeah.

00;19;37;04 - 00;19;49;19

Wendy Lyons

Now, you said that she had. She had met him, He had two children by another person. So the children move. The children live with him. And Lydia, Why did they not live with their mom Quite sure.

00;19;49;20 - 00;19;56;05

Carolyn Hundley

I really don't know that. You know, I'm assuming because again, control factor for him is I've got my kids.

00;19;56;20 - 00;19;59;00

David Lyons

I could I would have stayed. Yeah.

00;19;59;17 - 00;20;08;28

Wendy Lyons

So so during this time they're together they have these children things are you're kind of your heckles are a little up but you're kind of just right Nadal.

00;20;09;02 - 00;20;29;14

Carolyn Hundley

Yeah and for us, you know, my husband and I moved a few times in between this as well. So we moved with with being in the hospitality business. We had moved up north to Massachusetts and Boston area. We then been down in Charlotte and in D.C. So during this time there was a lot of moving and shaking going on, you know, with our world as well.

00;20;29;14 - 00;20;53;13

Carolyn Hundley

So, yeah, I mean, you know, they grew up and again, the kids grew up and I don't think that life was grand at the home all the time for them either. I think, you know, again, you know, the verbal abuse and things that he would do or say to them, you know, things that they tell me now are just, you know, make your skin crawl on some of the things.

00;20;53;13 - 00;21;14;27

Carolyn Hundley

And, you know, my nephew, you know, it said that at one point he said, I'm going to I'm going to pull out every one of your teeth and make him as a necklace and string it as a necklace and, you know, and nail your hands to the kitchen floor and, you know, things that we had never heard that during that time, you know, but just things that you learn about.

00;21;14;27 - 00;21;15;29

Carolyn Hundley

And in his later.

00;21;16;14 - 00;21;23;20

Wendy Lyons

Younger tragic referencing back to your mom saying that he was going to kill her, what started that fight or did it just fizzle out? No one ever talked about.

00;21;23;20 - 00;21;25;18

Carolyn Hundley

It and never talked about it. She never talked about it.

00;21;25;18 - 00;21;26;21

Wendy Lyons

You didn't ask her?

00;21;26;22 - 00;21;27;09

Carolyn Hundley

I did.

00;21;27;26 - 00;21;29;21

Wendy Lyons

But she just didn't want to talk about it.

00;21;30;03 - 00;21;38;04

Carolyn Hundley

It was just an argument that they had had. He was in the truck. He was driving home, he got mad and he started saying, I'm going to kill you. Basically.

00;21;38;04 - 00;21;42;04

Wendy Lyons

How long was that before he actually did kill her? Months. That was.

00;21;42;08 - 00;21;46;16

Carolyn Hundley

Years. Years. That was very early on. That was within the first year of them being together.

00;21;46;16 - 00;22;07;04

Wendy Lyons

Oh, wow. Yeah. And then it kind of makes you wonder, you know, it's always easy to sit back and think what you do. And I know unless we're in their shoes, we don't know what we would do. But I would think if someone threatened that of me, he's not home. I'm just going to go on leave. I'm going to take my kid and I'm leaving right now.

00;22;07;18 - 00;22;17;15

Wendy Lyons

But I'm sure probably like most domestic abusers, do they smooth it over? I was just angry. I was stressed. I'm so sorry.

00;22;17;15 - 00;22;18;07

Carolyn Hundley

I love you.

00;22;18;11 - 00;22;24;13

Wendy Lyons

You know I would never do that. You're my whole life. You're my whole world. Yeah, And they suck him right back in.

00;22;24;14 - 00;22;35;28

Carolyn Hundley

That's right. Well, next time, anything you do on the research of domestic violence, the average woman leaves the house seven times. Wow. She'll leave the house seven different times before she actually either leaves or dies.

00;22;36;08 - 00;22;36;22

Wendy Lyons

Wow.

00;22;36;29 - 00;22;57;04

David Lyons

So there's so much front end control and maintain control. The whole cycle of it is pretty vicious and it's solved. Yeah, I think that's what it is, is that it doesn't have anything to do with people who aren't smart. It's something the problem is with. And it's just I think I've told you before when these ones that I met were really gifted at this in a scary way.

00;22;57;04 - 00;23;02;20

David Lyons

Yeah, but like any other sociopath or psychopath, I mean, there's a gift to that that's pretty sickening.

00;23;03;06 - 00;23;27;04

Carolyn Hundley

Well, and I think when you look at it, too, I mean, especially for him, it is it was all control, right? He owned everything. Everything was in his name. You know, Lydia did not have a good steady income. Most I mean, she raised babies, you know, for most of her time, you know, So there was no means for her to do anything different.

00;23;27;04 - 00;23;44;12

Carolyn Hundley

Now, she had means around her, a support system around her. But I think for her at the time, especially when she was raising the kids, it's like, oh, no, we'll get through this, you know, kind of thing. And I, you know, I'm on my own and I've got, you know, I think for her it was he's going to be my savior.

00;23;44;27 - 00;24;06;18

Carolyn Hundley

And, you know, and I think she realized until she I think until the kids were as of I think she knew there was something not right all the way through. But I think until the kids were grown and, you know, after that, I think things started to really and I think as she matured. Right. Because she's still really young.

00;24;06;18 - 00;24;07;04

Wendy Lyons

Sure.

00;24;07;14 - 00;24;21;00

Carolyn Hundley

And, you know, I think as she matured, started realizing this is not right. I mean, you know, again, I mean, most days she couldn't stand it, you know, And that that's so sad. You know, I mean, who wants to live their life every day?

00;24;21;00 - 00;24;21;25

Wendy Lyons

Just miserable.

00;24;21;25 - 00;24;23;12

Carolyn Hundley

Miserable. I mean, just absolute.

00;24;23;12 - 00;24;27;09

Wendy Lyons

Now, did he allow her to work or was she just chose not to?

00;24;27;25 - 00;24;52;03

Carolyn Hundley

She didn't work at it. Well, he didn't allow her to work when the kids like we're doing their thing right. When when she was raising the kids early on, as they got a little bit older and able to kind of go with her and do things, she actually got a volunteer position at one of the equine places, and that worked out great because she could bring the kids with her.

00;24;52;16 - 00;25;16;21

Carolyn Hundley

She could have them do stuff with her at the at the horse place. You know, they could help clean stalls and, you know, do some things and time was flexible. So when he she needed to be home when dinner need to be served kid with Yeah that's right in and she could take 19 phone calls in the day because that was definitely one of the things that I mean he was in a truck for.

00;25;16;27 - 00;25;19;18

Carolyn Hundley

I mean, he's a regional truck driver, so I was in a truck.

00;25;19;18 - 00;25;19;24

Wendy Lyons

For.

00;25;19;24 - 00;25;40;03

Carolyn Hundley

Hours and hours and hours and hours. And all he did was phone and call all the time. I mean, and then when he wasn't in the truck, I mean, we would go just for the day. We I mean, literally would say, hey, we're going to go shopping and grab some lunch, just me and her or whatever. And I couldn't tell you how many times he call.

00;25;41;09 - 00;25;48;22

Carolyn Hundley

I mean, it'd be like seven times and I'd be losing my mind going, I, you're doing the same thing. You were just doing it. Like, it's.

00;25;48;22 - 00;25;51;05

Wendy Lyons

So funny because and I know you're thinking what I'm.

00;25;51;05 - 00;25;52;19

David Lyons

Thinking. Exactly.

00;25;53;13 - 00;26;13;19

Wendy Lyons

You know, as you heard me say on the podcast, when Angie and I went on that trip together, it was calling, texting or FaceTiming, and it was the whole time from breakfast to now we're done with breakfast. We're going back to change. I'll call you when we get up to the room to change. We're going down to get our beach chairs.

00;26;13;19 - 00;26;29;21

Wendy Lyons

I'll call you when we get down there all day long. And, you know, I'm wondering also if he didn't okay her working at a the volunteering at the equine because when you've got your kids you're probably not going to be out doing anything you shouldn't because you got kids with.

00;26;29;21 - 00;26;30;00

Carolyn Hundley

Yeah.

00;26;30;08 - 00;26;47;19

Wendy Lyons

Yeah And so they're kind of tethered to you So she's still not free to do really what she wants. And I'm surprised he even allowed her to go shopping or to eat with you because that came to a stop well hidden. We didn't hit and did it, but that came to a stop also.

00;26;47;19 - 00;27;09;02

Carolyn Hundley

Yeah, well, and I would see I think I guess I know at this point I know that for, you know, my husband and I, it was always we knew it was almost like we knew who we were dealing with, Right? Yeah. You knew what kind of character he was, but you also knew to see my sister and my my niece and nephew.

00;27;09;20 - 00;27;14;14

Carolyn Hundley

You know, you can't alienate him like you can't be mad at him, Right?

00;27;14;18 - 00;27;17;05

Wendy Lyons

You have to include him that pretend like you like him and.

00;27;17;05 - 00;27;38;14

Carolyn Hundley

Exactly. And so, you know, for us and especially for me, you know, it was always to try and be inclusive, right, with him because I wanted access to her. Because, I mean, she was my little she was my baby, you know, And I wanted my kid, my my niece and nephew who are my kids now, but, you know, my niece and nephew, I wanted to be able to have access to them.

00;27;38;25 - 00;27;42;20

Carolyn Hundley

And I knew if you alienated him, got it.

00;27;42;20 - 00;27;43;26

Wendy Lyons

You're done with hurts. Done.

00;27;43;27 - 00;28;12;26

Carolyn Hundley

It's done. And so we were always very inclusive with him, always tried to make him feel comfortable at Christmas. I mean, my husband and I would buy him gifts. I mean, you know, every holiday, you know, we tried to always include him. Now, for him, I think that was his only reason why, because, I mean, she would vacation with us like go to Pigeon Forge or she went to my 50th birthday party a year before she died.

00;28;14;05 - 00;28;31;09

Carolyn Hundley

She flew in to Panama City, you know, and spent three or four days with me, you know, some things like that. But one of the funny thing that he would always say is, you know, Carolyn, you're the only one I don't have anything bad to say about. And I would always go, That's good, Ken. Glad about that.

00;28;31;22 - 00;28;34;02

Wendy Lyons

Little do you know how I really feel about it.

00;28;34;10 - 00;28;49;28

Carolyn Hundley

You know? But I always, you know, and the sad part, you know, I always tried to again, respect his position with Lydia. That was her boyfriend. That was the father of my niece and nephew. She's not making a change any time soon. So I have to.

00;28;49;28 - 00;28;50;24

Wendy Lyons

Deal with what you got.

00;28;50;24 - 00;29;21;17

Carolyn Hundley

That's right. And so, you know, as much as you know, you were just like, because, I mean, half the time he would leave events or leave our house, you'd be sitting there going, Oh, my gosh, he's he's awful like, you know, or whatever he said or tick somebody off. He's very aggressive and overbearing and just, you know, I mean, my husband would call him sometimes uncouth, you know, like just just things that he would say or do.

00;29;21;17 - 00;29;24;24

Carolyn Hundley

You'd be like, like, why are you doing that? You know.

00;29;24;24 - 00;29;41;13

David Lyons

What a tightrope in a family dynamic. And it's another part of the this ripple effect of this whole thing of how that that control works out. And I'm going to bet the reason that he said that to you is he felt phenomenally successful. You were very successful in getting that out. And he felt like he controlled you really well.

00;29;41;13 - 00;29;49;01

David Lyons

They love that. Yes, it is, though, if they think that they've manipulated you hard enough and you fall in and they really they hold a different place in your.

00;29;49;02 - 00;30;18;18

Wendy Lyons

Well, it's so funny because you always would say about Anton, he hates you because he's scared of you. You, I'd say, wonder why he doesn't like, you know, challenge me or because her some of her her ex-husband's family members he had reached out to because Angie's ex-husband was murdered also. And she kind of reconnected with his family because her they were the aunt and grandmother to her children.

00;30;18;18 - 00;30;39;06

Wendy Lyons

That she had with her husband. So they all kind of rekindled and he messaged them and said, you will not message her anymore. I am her husband. Now you're done. And so I asked David one day, I said, wonder why he doesn't message me and say, do not message her no more. She has me now. And he said, I think he's scared of you.

00;30;39;11 - 00;31;00;14

David Lyons

Well, you you are the voice of reason. And there's that. There's a barrier there is that. Yeah. If anybody was going to get in her ear, he knew that would be you. Yeah. That he probably and your, your at heart type D you know an alpha person is that he could envision you pipe throwing a flower sack overhead and put it in a van and take her away from him.

00;31;00;14 - 00;31;18;12

David Lyons

I mean it, it there's, there's a certain line what I think you about successful that. Yeah. He really felt like he had manipulated. Yeah he thought great job about because I'm with you about how do you handle that because one respecting Lydia and that relationship even though it's not the one you would desire for and then the kids.

00;31;18;12 - 00;31;21;23

David Lyons

Yeah, right. And the hard thing to do. Commendable thing.

00;31;22;10 - 00;31;29;29

Wendy Lyons

Now, did Lydia have a best friend that she kind of told her that? Was it a Wendy and Angie with Lydia and someone else?

00;31;30;20 - 00;32;07;26

Carolyn Hundley

She had a really good friend there towards the end, but not long enough before that, right? Yeah. She actually had a dear friend that was my niece's mom who had become almost like a really close best friend. In fact, her and I had even talked with Lydia about three months before she died. I mean, we had literally been on the phone, her and I this this friend talking about how we could actually put Lydia down under, like literally like we had the friend had a rental home, a possibility where he would not know this home.

00;32;08;25 - 00;32;38;15

Carolyn Hundley

We had talked about, you know, being able to give her some money, You know, she'd have to cancel cell phones. I mean, just a lot of things would have to have started to start over. And when we talked to Lydia about it, you know, it's funny you look back now, but when we talked to Lydia about it, it was, you know, like, I can't be away from you and Daryl and, you know, and Booboo and, you know, all the family and, you know, because that was her big thing is, you know, you all are my only support, right?

00;32;38;26 - 00;32;40;06

Carolyn Hundley

You know, I can't be away from.

00;32;40;06 - 00;32;43;20

Wendy Lyons

Was there a way to secretly still see her, though, if you all moved her somewhere?

00;32;43;20 - 00;33;04;11

Carolyn Hundley

Probably not. Just because he was so super like when it came to that kind of stuff. We were just scared that, I mean, he would know that she would want to be with with us or seeing us, and that was too much to even, you know. So it was like we come up with the option of, okay, you got to either do this, go down under kind of world, you know, almost like with the green house.

00;33;04;22 - 00;33;16;07

Carolyn Hundley

Yes. Kind of go off the radar, the grid or, you know, you got to get a plan to get out and start that plan. So she decided to go down that route.

00;33;17;04 - 00;33;39;12

Wendy Lyons

If you are a victim of domestic violence or partner violence, please call your local police department or the National Domestic Violence hotline at one 800 7997233. You are not alone. There are resources available to help you and your family. Hey, you know there's more to the story, so go download the next episode. Like the true crime fan that you are.

00;33;41;05 - 00;34;12;24

David Lyons

The Murder Police podcast is hosted by Wendy and David Lyons and was created to honor the lives of crime victims so their names are never forgotten. It is produced, recorded and edited by David Lyons, The Murder Police podcast can be found on your favorite Apple or Android podcast platforms, as well as at Murder Police podcast ABC.com, where you will find Shownotes transcripts, information about our presenters and a link to the official Murder Police Podcast store where you can purchase a huge variety of murder.

00;34;12;24 - 00;34;38;04

David Lyons

Police podcast swag. We are also on Facebook, Instagram and YouTube, which is closed captioned for those that are hearing impaired, just search for the Murder Police podcast and you will find us. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe for more and give us five stars and a written review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you download your podcasts, make sure you set your player to automatically download new episodes so you get the new ones as soon as they drop.

00;34;38;17 - 00;34;41;28

David Lyons

And please tell your friends, lock it down, Judy.