The Murder of Goldia Massey | Part 5 of 7

Ready to peek behind the curtain of crime investigation and reveal the hidden tactics used by detectives? We're laying it all bare in this gripping episode as we piece together the enigmatic Goldia Massey case. Join us as we strategize and maneuver, carefully engaging with suspects to gather information without setting off alarm bells. We'll guide you through the art of establishing baseline statements and how we navigate the murky waters of owed debts.

Ever wondered how a seemingly inconsequential chat can lead to game-changing revelations? Our two-and-a-half-hour interview with Paris, a crucial person of interest, is an eye-opener. Experience the palpable tension in the room as we subtly coax information from Paris, who doesn't even realize he's providing crucial leads. We unearth the mystery of the missing tools, a peculiar landlord, and the incriminating evidence of blood swabs and missing carpet patches. 

In part 5 of this thrilling narrative, we delve deeper into Paris' attempts to scrub any trace of blood or DNA evidence. You'll hear firsthand details about his manipulative nature from an unexpected source - his girlfriend. Unravel the intriguing relationship dynamics between Goldia, Kenny, and Paris, and how it adds a fascinating twist to our investigation. We're arming you with all the gritty details, so hit that play button and dive headfirst into this enthralling world of crime investigation. Don't forget to subscribe for more riveting episodes!

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Transcript

Steve McCown: 0:02

Todd Eddings, who was in homicide at one point, but it went down as a sergeant in forensic services. He came back and I don't know if you know what Blue Star is but, Blue Star is a chemical agent that you can spray on a surface and if there has been blood on it it will illuminate blue, and Todd had brought a few photos back that he had taken, where there were some photos that he had taken of the wall where Blue Star hadn't illuminated and it looked like sort of like a spray pattern Morning.

Wendy Lyons: 0:35

The podcast you're about to listen to may contain graphic descriptions of violent assaults, murder and adult language. Listener discretion is advised. Welcome to the Murder Police podcast the murder of Goldie Massey, part five.

Steve McCown: 1:27

We have.

Chris Schoonover: 2:01

The lab was waiting around the corner. He never saw it, so all we did was text. We have him in the car go ahead.

Steve McCown: 2:06

The guys with FSU were waiting on you know. Well, that's cute, we've got him. He's agreed to come down with us. Let's go.

Wendy Lyons: 2:14

Well, when he was in the car with you all, did the name Goldie ever come up, or did you stick to his missing goods?

Steve McCown: 2:20

Oh no, no, it was all stolen property at that point.

David Lyons: 2:24

In small talk we used to have some talky people Small talk. But it's important because we already know he's pretty much an over communicator.

Steve McCown: 2:31

Oh I understand.

David Lyons: 2:32

The trick is just not to turn that tap off. Perfect. So yeah, you come up with it. Yeah, that really a move on your part. Well played David. Yes, that's right, Because he's an over communicator Right, it's human personality.

Chris Schoonover: 2:43

If you can read the person play on it, that's where your detective works Right, yeah, play stupid.

Chris Schoonover: 2:49

Steve is in, not to. I'm not trying to toot your horn because we're going to separate cars home, but Steve's a natural. That's why he came up there right Again with the water fountain analogy, and I actually sat in the back. When you remember this now I see the look in your face he rode up front with Steve. I sat in the back and he was explaining to Steve why he reported the tools missing and when he gets down there he'd like to speak to the detective that's handled his case, because he's never called him. And he said well, that's what we're going to do, we're going to get ahold of them. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Wendy Lyons: 3:23

But he never says to you all have you all ever found Goldie yet? Not one time, like it's his missing girlfriend, and he's not even asking your.

David Lyons: 3:31

My guess is that he's in control in his mind right now. He's fully in control of these two. And again, coming back to that thing, when you have an over communicator, play stupid and let him believe you're as dumb as a boxer.

Chris Schoonover: 3:43

Chirps.

Wendy Lyons: 3:44

And so in his mind he's about to manipulate all of this Right, but I just figured for good measure he'd say any leads on my girlfriend.

Steve McCown: 3:52

I think a little bit he was playing along with us you know what I mean, yeah, in the back of his mind. It was probably going through the back of his mind, but he was. He felt like he was in control. He felt like he could, he could, he could write the ship. You know what I mean. So it wasn't anything that.

David Lyons: 4:09

With those kind of people, they can always fix it Sure.

Chris Schoonover: 4:12

And I think everybody would agree here that, and even in your experience, 90% of the reason he came may have been. Well. I'll go back 40% of the reason he came, for the tools. The other 60% is to find out, maybe, what we knew what you knew.

Wendy Lyons: 4:27

That's it, that's right.

Chris Schoonover: 4:29

So he needs to come down, right he needs to come down. If he talks about his tools, that's great, but if we also ask him about Goldie, that's also great.

David Lyons: 4:36

And he knows at any point he can just stop Sure. He knows that.

Steve McCown: 4:40

And I think what is important about that too is Chris and I sort of knew that that's what he was thinking, that he was going to come down and recon us, so we weren't going to give him a whole lot. Yeah Well, we weren't. We weren't going to show him our hand, we were just getting him down there just to get a baseline statement. That we all know, baseline statements are never the truth, right, but at least it's a baseline, at least it's a starting point for somewhere that we can go and work off of. So that was our intentions.

Chris Schoonover: 5:10

And at this point Stephen Addari talked about Zach. He still locked up, Still a drug felon, and we saw passion for his mother. But when you're on drugs and you argue with your mother, you still have to and you want money to get your drugs, you still have to accept that this may be a suspect. Oh yeah, so we still are and he's still in jail. He cooperated with Frans and I and that was the last time we had talked to Zach, even though we talked to Samantha. She's in love with Zach, she's going to cover for Zach, so we still have him in the back of our mind. Right, We've kind of eliminated the people that she owed money to because they were older horse farm people and so that would tell you probably how much she probably didn't really need the money after all, but could she still be on the run?

Steve McCown: 6:03

Maybe, but I don't think that those folks that she owed four or $500 to are really going to miss it or really going to try to get retribution on Goldie.

Chris Schoonover: 6:13

They don't have the profile of killing the person.

David Lyons: 6:15

That owes them money.

Chris Schoonover: 6:17

They're going to go through this system. They trust the system, sure.

Wendy Lyons: 6:21

So you get him in the room. You're just talking about the tools.

Steve McCown: 6:24

So me and me, we actually so we get him down to headquarters and Scanan and I start game planning. We're like, so how are we going to do this? And Chris like, all right, we're not even going to read him our rights. We're going to talk about his case of missing of the missing tools and we're going to talk about Goldie a little bit, so about the missing person portion of it, right, so, and we did that intentionally we didn't want to go in there and read him his rights and make him feel like he was a suspect. Right, we would just want to talk to him. To talk to him.

Chris Schoonover: 6:58

And honestly, we had two suspects at that point, right.

David Lyons: 7:01

And if you approved his case of missing hisIFA, just ask Fur and hit. Miranda didn't apply, it did not. And we can educate the public on that quite a bit right now that you. It's a two-prong test. It's custody and interrogation, nothing else. And if you don't meet those that, we've all done it, it's not like a sneaky sneaky thing, either Miranda is applicable or it's not, and you don't use it when it's not.

Steve McCown: 7:21

So Too, shave or not absolutely, and he came free will that came to head quote free will, which he was not in custody and we we were not interrogating, we were. We at that point we didn't feel that he was a suspect, so we were not. We weren't going to talk about what we had found, we were just gonna talk about his missing tools and the missing persons report not the missing carpet.

Wendy Lyons: 7:44

Well, no, none of that, not the we but, we knew the handyman.

Steve McCown: 7:48

But Chris and I knew when we got to that point we were gonna Marie Miranda and we were gonna then ask him questions, yes, as a suspect. So that was our. That was, I mean, what we came up with so we could.

David Lyons: 8:00

Jen yeah, and that way we could have a conversation upper very well.

Steve McCown: 8:08

So I mean it was a. It was a way to us to get conversation going prior to him thinking that we thought he killed. Goldie is what it was.

Wendy Lyons: 8:15

Yeah, so that's kind of what we did. So was he pretty calm when you're talking to him, Absolutely 100%. Yeah, I mean he was his tools, hacksaws and things that could have been used to take arms off.

Steve McCown: 8:25

Yeah, I think that they were. They were tools, but it I mean there was a, so go to go back on Paris a little bit. So he, his landlord, he stayed there because he was a handyman, so I mean he did a lot of home improvement stuff for him, so it wasn't unusual for him to have tools and things that nature, so like he would go to the farm.

Chris Schoonover: 8:47

Sure, the person that owned the building he would go to they had a farm in Madison County and he would go there and help them with the fences and remodel the bathrooms and yeah, and also that he had several apartments that Paris would help remodel and so he just assumed Paris had a bunch of tools. And that's a very good question because After the interview and we'll get to that after the interview we had specific questions for that landlord.

Steve McCown: 9:15

Yeah, and again going back to that, it wasn't. It wasn't like we thought anything big with Paris having tools, because that was sort of his primary job so that we were.

Wendy Lyons: 9:25

We were good with that, but it was convenient.

Steve McCown: 9:28

But it was a good way for us to talk to him because he but he reported it stolen. So it was a way, it was a gateway to get us to where we needed to go.

Wendy Lyons: 9:36

Well, and also it would kind of lend to me that he's saying oh, my skills are, my hacksaw has just gotten stolen. Three months ago, about the same time, my girlfriend got hacked up and there was.

Chris Schoonover: 9:48

There was a saw and several other tools, but, what was more important, as any other suspect or anybody that you would interview, when you get into the interrogation room, things get close right, and the time that we were talking about the approach, he was also very fidgety. You could see him on camera going, you know, and just not comfortable in that room at all. But he's a salesman, so what he? He had plenty of time to think and the only thing that he added to was Okay, I was thinking about it when I first talked to you guys. Goldie was acting erratically and delirious.

Chris Schoonover: 10:34

When, I, like, she was on drugs like she was on drugs and she was crying. And I picked her up on the street of Synthiana and I just got her in the truck and she was making no sense yeah, is what he was saying. And Then I tried to calm her down. By the time we got to the bar we had a few drinks. She was still kind of acting erratic. So she said she wanted to go to her old residence and so I dropped her off, did residence and he still gave the same description of a white pickup truck, no what I know, and he thinks it was truck driver. Great Well.

Steve McCown: 11:09

Gregor, steve, gregor, steve.

Chris Schoonover: 11:12

So a combination of a bunch of things and we'll get there and so I Kind of did a synopsis of the interview, but it was a two-hour interview.

Steve McCown: 11:22

It was longer than that.

Chris Schoonover: 11:23

It was about two and a half hours because Steve really did a good job of Making him feel comfortable because he was from eastern Kentucky and so was Paris I. I was just more entertained by the conversation Because I know I don't know what you were talking about. All the stuff, coal mines and all that, I don't. I don't. There are no missing persons in eastern Kentucky.

Steve McCown: 11:54

This guy was a talker man. He could talk about anything. He I mean he would go on and on and I would tell the story and he'd just taught me. You know what I mean. I was like at one point I was like Paris, I could tell you a story and I promise you you can, you can top. My story is like you know, he's like yep, sure it can. I mean he was like the all-time leading tackler at Pike County High School and, and I mean At one point he told us about he was driving his van across the Alaskan highway and this moose comes out and sticks his head through the van. I it's off the wall, shit I'm. I mean, it was just he would go from one thing to another, to another, to another, and we would try to reel him back in, but there was not no, real, I would rather have that than somebody just no.

David Lyons: 12:37

Oh no, it was amazing.

Chris Schoonover: 12:38

It was amazing and I know I'm out of my field of Repour at this point. I don't hunt, I don't fish, I don't know any Eskimos.

David Lyons: 12:47

He doesn't understand anything you're saying because you're from New York, right, right?

Chris Schoonover: 12:50

if you want to go to a Broadway play, if you want to go ahead and steal something from Walmart, I'm your guy. Yeah, all this Alaskan pike fishing, coal mining stuff, I don't have any clue, no, but I will say this we kept him in that room for a long time that they got the complete search warrant.

Steve McCown: 13:10

And that was what we that was our point is we wanted to keep him in there long enough to get that search warrant done.

Wendy Lyons: 13:16

Yeah, or are they keeping you all abreast of this?

Steve McCown: 13:18

Yes, yes, oh, yeah, yeah, I'd protect that's correct.

Chris Schoonover: 13:21

They're still telling us there's sub flooring in the house.

Wendy Lyons: 13:24

So no new carpets been put down in these three some months.

Chris Schoonover: 13:27

No, there's some hallway is. Flooring in the hallway was semi-new. It looked like he had painted. Oh, but they still think they found blood swabs.

Wendy Lyons: 13:38

In the living room with the missing carpet.

Chris Schoonover: 13:41

In certain areas. They didn't tell us details, so they swabbed the bloods because I remember sending them off from that search warrant.

Steve McCown: 13:51

Yeah, what I remember specifically is when they actually made it back after the interview was over, todd Eddings who was in homicide at one point, but it went down as a sergeant in forensic services he came back and I don't know if you know what Blue Star is, but Blue Star is a chemical agent that you can spray on a surface and if there has been blood on it it will illuminate blue. And Todd had brought a few photos back that he had taken where there were some photos that he had taken of the wall where Blue Star had illuminated and it looked like sort of like a spray pattern.

Chris Schoonover: 14:28

So it was at a 45 degree angle.

Steve McCown: 14:31

Right, but it looked maybe like front. If you had used like a saw, that would like Spray it up. Expel. You know, a substance on the wall where it looked more like a spray rather than just blood droplets.

Chris Schoonover: 14:48

Right, If you own a chainsaw for the listeners. If you own a chainsaw. Or a circular saw and you have the wood and the wood filings, come back and just spray up, or, if you run a, circular saw through a board.

Steve McCown: 15:00

you would see the kickback from a spray on that, and then that was.

Chris Schoonover: 15:04

But there was too. Yeah, but it had been painted over.

Steve McCown: 15:07

So to us that was like, wow, there's something something there is making it like, but at that point we had already let him go, so he.

Wendy Lyons: 15:16

I was going to ask you, had he had. You all just said thank you for your time and taking him back To the place that they had just left.

Chris Schoonover: 15:22

Yes, yes, and when he got back they were not done and that was a little bit of a surprise to him, but he didn't obviously want to reveal to us that he was like oh, did he say, you all didn't tell me that there's no search warrant.

Steve McCown: 15:34

No, no no, I think the narcissism in him, sort of. You know, he was like oh, that's no problem, I got this.

Chris Schoonover: 15:40

You know what I mean, but he wasn't worried.

Steve McCown: 15:42

He in his mind he wasn't worried about it because he had done everything that he needed to do to cover. To satisfy you all, so he had came down and talked to us for three hours.

Chris Schoonover: 15:52

And to cover what we talked about him in the interview. We did all the basic. Hey, we're going to tell you right now there's a team of forensic scientists at your house and we're collecting evidence. What do you have to say if any of Goldie's DNA is there, and blood specifically? I?

Steve McCown: 16:12

mean, what would you say? I mean, we just flat out that.

Wendy Lyons: 16:15

So you asked this in that room yeah, what would you?

Steve McCown: 16:18

say, if we came up with Goldie's blood in your apartment and for him?

Chris Schoonover: 16:22

Great. He said the blood you'll find is from my girlfriend, because we got in a fight and I used a sword and that's where he got the.

David Lyons: 16:31

Yes, here we go. It comes back to Qualifier. Yes, a qualifier is a perfect example of it yeah, he yeah.

Wendy Lyons: 16:36

He was girlfriend is in Goldie. Yes, as in Goldie.

Steve McCown: 16:39

I mean to justify what he was in his mind. He would be able to say oh yes, she lived there. We got a couple of times you find her blood in there.

Chris Schoonover: 16:47

That's why it was a fork and a sword right, and a fork was in the cave, I believe, and then a sword. He ends on the wall he got. That's where the bumps came from, and if you find any blood in the shower, it was from her menstrual cycle, so he was.

David Lyons: 17:04

He's thinking on his feet.

Steve McCown: 17:05

He was covering all basis when it came to blood DNA thing because he knew that this was coming. And what I will also say about the interview is did we want to let him go? No, we didn't want to let him go, but we kind of had to let him go.

David Lyons: 17:19

We don't have there's no, you know what I mean.

Steve McCown: 17:21

But. But what we knew when we were, when we were going into the whole thing, is we were getting that baseline right. We weren't looking, unless he told us I killed her, I cut her, I cut her up and all that.

Chris Schoonover: 17:31

I feel bad. She was a drug addicted woman that just turned and wanted to kill me, and she had a knife and I had to defend myself, which would have been his best defense. Yeah, but we weren't going to give him that out.

Wendy Lyons: 17:43

Well, a side of the dismemberment that came, that followed.

Chris Schoonover: 17:46

But yeah, well, we're going to use that as well, but we don't want to give him and so far I've entered probable cause.

David Lyons: 17:52

I mean really nothing near no, there there were there were no image.

Chris Schoonover: 17:56

Well, yeah, we found some blood in there, but but it could be his as well, right, because he's a carpenter.

David Lyons: 18:01

Yeah, and she's lived there, so right, we did.

Steve McCown: 18:05

We did not know whose blood it was, we just knew that there was blood in there.

Chris Schoonover: 18:08

But I will say this is the last phrase we gave him and we did this together, but Steve, steve had a good rapport with him, so we didn't want that reporter to go away, but we said, paris, if we come back, it's going to be to arrest you for her murder.

David Lyons: 18:29

How do you respond?

Steve McCown: 18:31

He said I understand. So he was very, I mean, he really he knew clearly and we may. And I told him, like Paris, you understand, if we come back to your house and have her on a taste, we're not coming back to talk to you, we're not coming back to do anything. We're coming back and we're going to take you to jail. And he's like okay, yeah, and left it at that. We're like okay, can we take you home now?

Chris Schoonover: 18:57

Yeah, he did, steve was. I mean, he loves Steve. How many of us just that way?

David Lyons: 19:01

I, and I have no problem believing that.

Steve McCown: 19:03

Yeah, I mean he we were just very upfront with him. We told him where we were. I mean we it's not like we really blatantly lied to him. Yeah, we got him down there in a race, but we were, I mean we were telling him what was going on and what we thought and and our theory. And he's like I'm, I'm just not buying it, boys. I'm, I didn't do nothing to go.

Chris Schoonover: 19:24

I mean he just, and he was not one of those suspects that you said he's got sharp guys, right. He's got no feelings, he's got no emotion. He wasn't one of those guys. He was a womanizer and every, everything was everybody else's fault, and his entire life Very controlling. Right yeah.

Steve McCown: 19:43

Yeah, we found out later in talking to a girlfriend that had been with Paris after Goldie, that he was a very controlling, very manipulative, especially when he'd been drinking um, very mentally abusive as well not as well as physically abusive. But yeah, I think that was sort of the pattern that he had, yeah, and and luckily we were able to find her and talk to her, uh, about, about Paris, and that was a huge and we'll get into that, because that's where the he tried to get us to believe that that's where the sword in the fort came from was Goldie.

Chris Schoonover: 20:19

But actually we located this other person based on his cell phone records. So what happened was we drop them off.

Steve McCown: 20:29

Yeah, draw them off the house, all the blood. Have a good night.

Chris Schoonover: 20:32

Yeah, all the blood swabs they collected I sent off to KSP and so now it's a waiting game because we know it's not like TV, it's going to be several weeks, though KSP works very well with Lexington Metro If it is a high profile case, which this was not, and we had a calling, a couple favors, but there was so many counties involved in this with a torso with the arm, that KSP said okay, yeah, this is, this is an important thing. So they assisted us. So we're waiting on the DNA to come back from the blood swabs.

Chris Schoonover: 21:08

In the meantime, steve and I go ahead and set up an interview with on the June eight, so December 18th, we get the blood swabs, we send them off, and now on January eight, so we have Christmas, we have all that and I've learned over the years from the Alex Johnson case I'm not missing my family's Christmas morning. I'm just not going to do it anymore and if you're not on call either should any other detective. Family is very important to us, sure, and until you're in that position for seven or so years, like Steve, family is really important. So from that point, january 8th, we get right back to work. We set up interviews with Kenny Hillman. Tell him about Kenny Hillman. So.

Steve McCown: 21:54

Kenny Hillman was a guy that supposedly had the white truck right. So we wanted to talk to Kenny. Hey, kenny, how do you know Goldie? No, they're on the life. Grew up with her, you know actually helped her move her stuff. She called me because she had been evicted, um, you know, I went over and helped her move some stuff. So when we talked to Kenny we're like, well, what do you drive? He's like I have a white F one, 50. Like, okay, so you helped her move her stuff after she got evicted, um, out of her place on range. Cory's like, yeah, because she had gotten evicted out of there and I was helping her move to her son's place, right, okay, that makes sense. So I think after that we had gotten information through cell phone records, again on the identifying numbers of gentlemen by the name of Greg Vaught. If you remember, back Paris had given this description of the white F one 50 or truck driver, greg or Greg or Steve, that he dropped her off to.

Steve McCown: 22:46

So he's coming up with all these stories. So we find Greg talked to him. We're like, hey, greg, can we come and talk to you? He actually comes to headquarters and, uh, talks to us. He drove a truck, um Goldie. He had known Goldie his whole life.

Steve McCown: 23:01

Um, actually had confronted Goldie on a couple of occasions because he, um Goldie had showed up where she had a black eye and he inquired with her as to who did it and she said, oh, me and Paris. They got into it, but it was an accident and Greg Greg got pissed off and he's like if he ever lays a hand on you, I'm going to, I'm going to mess him up, kind of thing. You know what I mean. So Greg was really protective of Goldie because he had known her for so long they weren't ever boyfriend and girlfriend, but I think they were just lifelong friends that Goldie confided a lot of things in Greg Um, but he was very defensive of her and he's like you need to stay away from him. I don't know why you're with him. I've heard bad things about him. I heard you know just little things.

Chris Schoonover: 23:43

And that tells you a lot about Goldie. Kenny Hillman was the same way like Goldie. If you need anything, I know that you've been in trouble before, but if you need anything, you and I are from Paris, we know fan, our families know each other I'll do anything for you. Whatever you need, you let me know, which explains why.

Wendy Lyons: 24:05

Hey, you know there's more to the story, so go download the next episode, like the true crime fan that you are.

David Lyons: 24:36

And a link to the official murder police podcast merch store where you can purchase a huge variety of murder police podcasts swag. We are also on Facebook, instagram and YouTube, which is closed caption for those that are hearing impaired. Just search for the murder police podcast and you will find us. If you have enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe for more and give us five stars in a written review on Apple podcast or wherever you download your podcasts. Make sure you set your player to automatically download new episodes so you get the new ones as soon as they drop, and please tell your friends Lock it down.

David Lyons: 25:12

Judy.