Ever wondered what the odds of one in 20 quintillion look like? What it means when that number points a finger straight at a murder suspect? Join us as we unravel the case surrounding Goldia Massey's murder. We'll walk you through the painstaking process of building rapport with suspects, and the crucial role dignity plays during interrogations. Listen as we reveal how a fatigued suspect, in his attempt to scrub away the evidence, overlooked incriminating blood droplets that proved to be his undoing.
Fasten your seatbelts as we transport you to the body farm at the University of Tennessee, where the forensic expertise of Dr. Donnie Steadman takes center stage. He sheds light on the chilling dismemberment mechanism, identified with a reciprocating saw in the Paris Charles case. Learn about the challenges faced in connecting this reciprocating saw back to Charles and his landlord. We close by emphasizing the urgent need for prompt reporting of missing persons and why complete transparency with detectives can make or break a case. Remember, honoring the victims means never letting their names fade away. Tune in, this is one episode that will keep you on the edge of your seat.
Shop for Murder Police Podcast swag by clicking HERE today! 10% of ALL swag and merch proceeds are donated to the DNA Doe Project.
See what you have been missing on YouTube!
Ever wondered what the odds of one in 20 quintillion look like? What it means when that number points a finger straight at a murder suspect? Join us as we unravel the case surrounding Goldia Massey's murder. We'll walk you through the painstaking process of building rapport with suspects, and the crucial role dignity plays during interrogations. Listen as we reveal how a fatigued suspect, in his attempt to scrub away the evidence, overlooked incriminating blood droplets that proved to be his undoing.
Fasten your seatbelts as we transport you to the body farm at the University of Tennessee, where the forensic expertise of Dr. Donnie Steadman takes center stage. He sheds light on the chilling dismemberment mechanism, identified with a reciprocating saw in the Paris Charles case. Learn about the challenges faced in connecting this reciprocating saw back to Charles and his landlord. We close by emphasizing the urgent need for prompt reporting of missing persons and why complete transparency with detectives can make or break a case. Remember, honoring the victims means never letting their names fade away. Tune in, this is one episode that will keep you on the edge of your seat.
Shop for Murder Police Podcast swag by clicking HERE today! 10% of ALL swag and merch proceeds are donated to the DNA Doe Project.
See what you have been missing on YouTube!
I was like Paris. I want you to see this, to let you know. I'm not kidding, I'm not making this up, I'm not trying to pull one over on you. Here it is. Here's the lab report One in 20 quintillion, 80 zeros. He's like. I don't believe that.
Wendy Lyons:Morning. The podcast you're about to listen to may contain graphic descriptions of violent assaults, murder and adult language. The description is advised. Welcome to the murder police podcast. The murder of Goldie Massey, part seven.
Chris Schoonover:And Steve, just let him know.
David Lyons:Think back how many times all of us and other people that have done this will agree we put murders in the front seat, or we took murders down and something didn't have a cage, or we went into their home and had that conversation. And what I'm getting at is that TV. Again, I compare things that Hollywood and TV. So much on the violence and everything, but how many murders we dealt with. It just went along with the program and I hope people don't misinterpret this. But we didn't saddle up the RU or SWAT and it wasn't because we had tombstone courage. But knowing who they are is that's not where the fight's gonna be.
Wendy Lyons:Now that doesn't mean it?
David Lyons:for all of them, people who are barricaded in. Necessarily. That's a whole different ball of wax, but always thought of again at one time one thing to protect that non-custodial interview thing how is a casual ride almost like an Uber ride to police departments? It would be funny when you talk about that casualness of it. To me it was like that. It was like most of the time it wasn't really amped up or super excited.
Chris Schoonover:It was like okay, we're going and they would go and we knew that we possibly could have a murder there. Yes, exactly yeah.
David Lyons:But maybe it comes down to that rapport again. Like you're getting back with Steve.
Steve McCowen:Yeah.
David Lyons:Is that the relationship you build is one of those things that keeps you safe and keeps everything from escalating into a higher degree.
Chris Schoonover:Yeah, you get, and not having lights and sirens, and have his neighbors know, right, yes, you got to respect the guy, there we go, perfect yeah. It's just, it's human nature, not if you disrespect me, I'm going to disrespect you, not so much respect, but I think a little bit of dignity we were given in dignity you know what I mean.
Steve McCowen:We weren't. We weren't trying to out him in front of everybody, we were just we were doing what we had to do in a most discreet manner that we could possibly do it. Yeah, and I think I think that was his appreciation and probably why he really kind of went along with everything is we weren't, we didn't come in there with guns blazing and and you know, our PA is going and calling him out.
David Lyons:You stay off that lizard brain.
Steve McCowen:You stay off that amygdala.
David Lyons:We didn't need media there.
Chris Schoonover:No, absolutely not Like a lot of police departments, do not they? They don't need the radio, they don't need the media there. Right, they're going to. They're going to get a lot more sugar.
David Lyons:That's. That's what this is about.
Wendy Lyons:So he didn't try to dispute it and say you're wrong. I did not do this.
Steve McCowen:Oh 100%. He did, oh, he did, oh 100%.
Chris Schoonover:But he knew when we came back the second time. He was so positive when we came back the second time Let me back up when we dropped him off, he knew if he saw us the second time, both of us together, he was going to jail. He was going to jail.
Wendy Lyons:And that's what I mean. When you came back that second time, he was not disputing it.
Steve McCowen:Still strong, no never, never did it.
Wendy Lyons:Didn't do it. He still was seeing you, you all are crazy.
Steve McCowen:I don't know where you're coming from.
Wendy Lyons:But I showed him the lab reports. I mean.
Steve McCowen:I mean it was. I was like Paris. I want you to see this, to let you know I'm not kidding, I'm not making this up, I'm not trying to pull one over on you. Here it is. Here's the lab report One in 20 quintillion 80 zeros. He's like I don't believe that.
Chris Schoonover:Her menstrual cycle was hard.
Steve McCowen:He told us so you know, and at that point.
Chris Schoonover:But what we had Am I right, steve? That's what he tells us? Her menstrual cycle was hard.
David Lyons:It could have been on any wall and that DNA is just a fad.
Steve McCowen:But I think what was most important is, during that second search warrant we got so much more that we did it in the first we we, when we went back and we were looking a lot more in depth, we found blood. We actually found blood that we could see.
David Lyons:Something not painted over, no, so what happened?
Steve McCowen:So he tried to clean.
Chris Schoonover:He cleaned with bleach in a lot of areas and he painted a lot of areas. But as what many of us do, we're so exhausted trying to cover up the crime, we forget the minute details. And this was the most magnificent finding was at in a hallway, at his bedroom, where your door opens and closes, where the hinges are On the on the back jam of the door.
Steve McCowen:Yes, so what had happened is he had closed the door, cleaned the door, but at the but at the time that Mer, that that Goldie was assaulted and killed, the door was open. So on that back jam there was blood droplets, all the way up, all the way up the entire thing.
Steve McCowen:The door was completely clean on the inside. Now we did after we got it back and we looked at it, you know, in a little bit better light we could find places on the door that he had missed on the flat side of the door, but on that backside jam door where the hinges are obvious blood droplets.
David Lyons:We count on them, being so stupid sometimes.
Steve McCowen:And.
David Lyons:I mean, that's what it's all about. Of all we said, it's not so much that detectives are smart. We wait for that bulb to flicker over their head and jump on them in the dark.
Chris Schoonover:Everybody makes a mistake, right, that's it, including detectives, yeah, amen. We are, we are human.
Steve McCowen:Yep, yep, and for and for us. We really didn't know where the crime happened, right, we? We thought that she was cut up in there, you know, dismembered in there, because of the blue saw that we saw on the wall. But with what we found back in this little hallway nook that led to a couple rooms, there was obvious blood that had came up at a pretty high. It wasn't spray, and we had Tim Russell who does blood spatter with our FSU, look at it and he was like, yeah, that's probably coming from from a lower distance, up onto the, onto the back of the door. So that was what we believed where she was assaulted initially and then probably our theory is we can't prove it Probably taken to the living room Tarp, put down dismembered, because obviously you're not bleeding at that point you can contain within the tarp, and then the tarp taken out in her along with the carpeting.
Steve McCowen:I mean that's sort of our theory, Max series, right, so we, but we felt like he had. He had assaulted her back near the bedroom in this little nook area that led to a couple bedrooms that are real confined space.
David Lyons:That's where you had, I guess, the spatter.
Steve McCowen:That's where we had the most, yeah, yeah, the most amount of blood Right.
Chris Schoonover:And so now we're adding all kinds of liaison, right, so we're not doing this alone and we go back to Zach. Steve and I do go back to Zach and explain to him hey, we found evidence that Paris has murdered your mom, that she is dead at this point, that that's why she didn't come back and get closed. He literally breaks down. I remember this.
Steve McCowen:Hey, Carl, I like a baby.
Chris Schoonover:He did. He did and it does affect detectives. I'm not going to lie to you because we consider him a suspect right, and I'm getting goosebumps just talking about this. But he is a suspect and I don't feel bad about it because later on I would have to pay the price when I'm testifying and Steve is testifying. Steve, you need to see his, his reaction. It's just part of the job and we have to live through it. His sister I remember telling his sister that Zach had nothing to do with it. She was relieved. It was a whole different kind of response. Yeah, sure.
Steve McCowen:Yeah, sure, I mean she. She was just overwhelmed. I didn't have anything to do with it and she was, you know, in the beginning she was sort of she didn't know.
Chris Schoonover:Anti -Zach. She was anti-Zach.
Steve McCowen:Yeah, if you know, she thought that he may have had something to do with it and for, in her mind, to feel that that he didn't have anything to do, it sort of uplifted her.
David Lyons:In her defense. You just don't know, Right, I mean she's thinking the same thing, 100% sure. I think she's looking at the risk factors, his lifestyle, all those things. What a horrible place for a family member to be in, I mean. So God bless her.
Chris Schoonover:Yeah, and one thing she always kept in contact with us, always, it was probably once to every 10 days. She would call when are we at? What are we doing? Can you tell me anything? I know I don't want to violate the integrity of the case. She was always on top of it. She really was, she was just an unusual for a family member.
Steve McCowen:She was a good sister, that's for sure. She kept us, she kept us and you all responded.
Chris Schoonover:Absolutely, of course, yeah, absolutely.
David Lyons:Because that's a big complaint.
Chris Schoonover:I would have to call the commander at the time. If she called you, I was very afraid I'd lose my job.
David Lyons:I'd be terrified. I scared myself most days.
Wendy Lyons:Yes, you intimidate me sir.
David Lyons:Exactly. But yeah, I mean, that's the right thing to do, right, right. And again, in these victims' families, one of the things that people miss is that contact thing and how important that is. So, zach, that was pretty moving, I guess, right, sure. Because, I guess he responded as a guy that lost his mom.
Wendy Lyons:Yeah, Well into a very horrific manner. There we go.
Chris Schoonover:Yeah, I have a little sympathy for him. I think Steve does too. I mean, the guy has been dealt a bad card. There we go Right. His mom, he and his mom did drugs together.
Steve McCowen:Well, and I think, in looking at the big picture, he probably didn't like us in the beginning, right sure, because we were pointing a finger at him. You know what I mean.
Chris Schoonover:And especially Frantz. Yeah, if you're listening, frantz.
Steve McCowen:Yeah, those short fingers that Frantz was pointing at him at, but I mean for us to be able to go back and tell him hey, we don't think you did it, but this is why we had to sort of do it the way that we did it. I think he understood that and he respected that and that made us feel good.
David Lyons:Well, he's walking a lifestyle, very difficult, challenges that are an opposition of what law enforcement is Right.
Wendy Lyons:Have you all spoken with him since this time? I mean, we've got nine years, that's past. Did he ever get out of his jail? Sentence?
Chris Schoonover:He has, he's moved on. I think he and Samantha are still, I think, together. I don't think they've ever married.
Steve McCowen:I don't know. I do not know.
Chris Schoonover:Yeah, but there's another thing to this. So you can't just take this to trial, right, you can't. You have to know the cause of death For sure. You don't have to have the motive. In the state of the Commonwealth of Kentucky, you don't have to have proof of motive, but you do have to have at least what they think is a cause of death. So being in homicide for a long time, a mechanism of death Right. Yeah, steve and I, and even Dave, have heard about the forensic pathology farm, anthropology farm.
Steve McCowen:It's the body farming at the University of Tennessee Right. That was started by Dr Bass and we referenced Dr Craig earlier. I think she did some, you know, work down there as well and in our time and work in my time at the corner job was working with Dr Craig. She had introduced the body farm to us on a couple of other cases and the work that they do down there is just absolutely phenomenal, the things that they come up with and the way that they come up with it. So we knew that we had, we had we had an arm, we had a torso and we wanted to figure out what happened. And so we made arrangements with the corner's office and they transported those parts down to the University of Tennessee, to the body farm for us and went down there and talked to I think I think the, if I remember the, the medical examiner or the forensic anthropologist that helped us out. Her name was Donnie Steadman.
Chris Schoonover:It is and I don't.
Steve McCowen:it just came to me, but she yeah, we, we gave them the, the, the body parts, and we were like, so what happens here? And basically they put them in big, huge crock pots. Um, slow cook, they, they, they boil, they basically cook all the flesh. I mean, I know this is a, this is a bit gruesome, but they take, they deflesh all the bones and what's important about that is they don't use any sharp instruments because they don't want it to put any markings on the bones that weren't there. So they use like plastic or soft instruments to remove all the flesh, all the cartilage and everything off the bones, because they're not interested in the flesh, they're interested in the bones.
Chris Schoonover:Right. So if there's a sharp instrument mark on the bones, what does that mean?
Steve McCowen:Then that means that something was introduced into the body.
Wendy Lyons:It could be a stabbing yeah, that was.
Steve McCowen:That's not natural. But what we were interested in was trying to figure out how was she dismembered. And what was just so incredibly interesting is they were able to look at the bone, at her, her bones and just by the, the action of the blade and the length between the blades and things like that, they were able to determine that she was actually cut up with a reciprocating saw backwards and forwards motion, not circular. And at the time of the cut the cut went directly through nonstop. So it was Dr Steadman's opinion that whoever used this tool was familiar with it, because they it never jammed, it never stopped, it went directly through. And if we think about Paris, he's a handyman right.
David Lyons:Right.
Steve McCowen:So he knows how to use tools, so he goes directly through. So that was really really neat. They they were able to determine that it was reciprocating saw.
Chris Schoonover:We spent two days Back and forth motion and, look, they showed us the bones. It was great. They so, they magnified their technology. They magnified so we didn't have to get right on the bone. So I don't want your listeners to think that five heads were on this one bone. It was on a projector.
Steve McCowen:We could see where, like they would use an instrument to point out, what they could see was the pattern of the saw they explained it perfectly and they actually can go into these companies and know that, like, for instance, a DeWalt reciprocating saw makes so many passes. The teeth of the reciprocating saw and the length of it in so many seconds to be able to determine what kind of blade that was used.
Chris Schoonover:It's incredible. It's incredible.
Wendy Lyons:It was amazing for them to educate us Did he by chance say that a reciprocating saw was missing in his stolen.
Chris Schoonover:Well we said what we did was we didn't have another search warrant, so we did search everything around his house and in the back yard that he had in his van.
Chris Schoonover:He had tons of tools in his van. So that brings us back to the landlord of Paris, charles. Remember, at their original point of this interview we started talking about, when Steve noticed there was no carpet. It was down to the sub flooring. If you're a detective and you want to be consistent and you're not going to let things go when we used to call Davey a bulldog, if you're not going to let that go, you're just going to shake your head. That's what we did. I will be proud to say this.
Chris Schoonover:I followed Davey's lead. We called the landlord and said okay, when we searched originally on this date for Paris's apartment, did he actually contact you and ask you for a reduction in rent? We didn't tell him what he was doing. Did he ask you for a reduction in rent and did he ask you for any repairs? He said when I first rented to him he was going to replace the floor, but he never did. That was two years prior to him running.
Chris Schoonover:Then, all of a sudden, we said well, when we went in on the second search warrant we went on February, whatever the second search warrant was he had piles of hardwood in packaging. He said, oh yeah, he was going to replace the floor when he first moved in. But he never did. I just thought he forgot about it. All of a sudden now, after Golden Mass, he has been murdered, what we assume dismembered in his apartment he's replacing the floor. The landlord was subpoenaed to testify in this trial. I don't know what to say about his testimony, but I will say the consistency of what Paris did and what the landlord said kind of didn't match no Am.
Steve McCowen:I safe and saying that I would agree with that. Yeah, yeah, I think that there was definitely some issues with what the landlord was telling us as opposed to what we saw and what we discovered as far as the flooring and things of that nature.
David Lyons:Do you think there was a motive in that?
Steve McCowen:No, I just.
David Lyons:I think there was a bit of loyalty. Okay, got you.
Steve McCowen:Yeah, because he had been working for him. He had been doing not only was he working on his apartments but Paris, and also the landlord had told us that he was working on other properties that the landlord owed. So I think there was a bit of loyalty there, possibly, and maybe the fact that he just didn't want to believe that he did it.
David Lyons:That's always real too.
Chris Schoonover:Yeah, because I think Paris Charles worked for this landlord's father for several years before the landlord had taken over.
David Lyons:Yeah.
Chris Schoonover:I think, so I think so. So I just you know there's an inability there, right yeah, possible at least.
David Lyons:I think at that point.
Steve McCowen:After that we had gotten everything our results back from the body farm. We were just kind of prepping for trial. Everything went quickly, as opposed to most normal murder cases, I mean we were.
Chris Schoonover:That was the quickest I've ever been to trial in years on a homicide.
Steve McCowen:No, we went to trial, we I don't know why or what happened. I think it charged him in February and we went to trial that that September.
David Lyons:So Lord, that's quick.
Steve McCowen:Yeah, and it was you know. We got our subpoenas and we started preparing for trial, getting everything together. Lou Anna and Rewa were the prosecutors in the case and did an excellent job Outstanding.
Wendy Lyons:What kind of sentence did he get?
Steve McCowen:He got found guilty and he wound up getting 35 years for the murder and I think he got 12 months for the abuse of a corpse, but it was it ran consecutive, so it was likely still denying it the whole time during trial 100% and I remember, if you'll remember, when we interviewed Paris he was, and if you watch the interviews, he had a bald head with a little bit of a beard and by the time we went to trial he looked like Santa Claus, I mean he came in on a walk or a thing.
Steve McCowen:He had a huge beard going, yeah, but he'd always told us he was a biker too. That went along with his all of his stories and things that nature. But you really you really need to watch his interview to get a feel for.
David Lyons:We'll try to take a peek at that and probably plug that in. It could have already happened by the time we're talking about this is that we'll look at that and put some snippets in to see who he was. So what spoke to you all in this? Was there anything we talked in the beginning about? What stood out? Now hot wash it like you're done with it? Did it leave any big impressions on you moving forward, on how you would handle the cases differently, or anything really learned in this?
Steve McCowen:For me it was to not really take anything for granted, especially missing person reports, because when we talked about this earlier, they're so easy to look over but they're so important because those are the big ones. I mean, in my time up there we experienced so many missing persons for reports that actually turned into murders the Sharon Cave missing persons that turned into murder, the Alice Johnson missing persons that turned into murder, the Goldie Massey missing persons. Those are only three examples of missing person reports that got reported, but of the probably 3,000 missing person reports that were actually filed in my time up there, you can't overlook anything. You have to be so detail oriented.
David Lyons:That's it.
Steve McCowen:That's the thing that I really focused on and I felt, like you know, there were days that I would overlook that stuff and because of this case, I'm like that's a good lesson learned Not to overlook things, not to take things for granted, and just because they're missing doesn't mean they don't want to be found.
David Lyons:There's a lot of family, steve, that when I hear you say that, I'll take comfort, knowing that detectives believe that.
Steve McCowen:Absolutely. I think there's a lot of solace taken in that that we knew up there that it could lead to major problems if you didn't, and we wanted to correct those problems from the forefront Fantastic.
Chris Schoonover:I would add on to that that don't wait what you see on TV where you have to wait 24 or 48 hours to report your loved one missing, that's a misnomer, I think. If you are adamant that something is unusual about the pattern of your loved one, report it. At least report it, and the detective will have that. If it's a good detective, we'll have that gut feeling. Yeah, we probably should jump on this right away. Even though Goldie was reported several weeks after she was missing, the detectives didn't wait to find out something was unusual.
David Lyons:I can see the delay, but from what I gathered, even her son Zach, when he reported it he provided the risk factors immediately. Am I correct in that he did which? So he was pretty clear in that and I know at some point you look at that maybe suspiciously because we could say he could overload information.
Chris Schoonover:With the drug information. He didn't want to come forth with that right it's a personal thing.
David Lyons:But he still provided some of those things about her involvement and some of the allegations are fralled and check-righted and things like that Sure.
Steve McCowen:And I think even Zach was behind the ball, though you know in reporting, because you know he was getting information from Paris that you know that wasn't true. So I think that even he was. He probably had learned it prior but didn't really think about it until he was like this isn't adding up Right. I need to call yeah.
Chris Schoonover:Right.
Steve McCowen:And this is what this guy told me.
Chris Schoonover:Right.
Steve McCowen:And this doesn't make sense.
Chris Schoonover:Yeah, so the longer you delay, the more difficult it gets for detectives.
David Lyons:And provide lots of information. We've talked about that in this podcast before about how you have to really. You have to be very exposed. You have to tell about those intimate things that you can't wait till something goes wrong and say, oh yeah, they did deal mid-level with drug dealing. That I know that's embarrassing, but you have to let people know that off the bat because that's where the risk factors are going to come from 100%, that's where.
Chris Schoonover:I'm going to get even deeper. If, even if there was a family dynamic where and I don't know if you're comfortable putting this out there, but if there was in central, in central relationships, but you still did have nothing to do with this, don't hesitate, you may have to admit it. Don't hesitate if you want the true results.
David Lyons:Yeah, because that's going to lead. There's the rabbit hole when you stumble on that, mckaylee Mahon. That's it.
Chris Schoonover:Don't do it.
David Lyons:Yeah, good point. And in in yeah, they're good point because it creates a complete rabbit hole that everybody's going to shift and go down. That was horrible, horrible.
Chris Schoonover:Weeks and weeks of investigation, when they could have gone elsewhere.
David Lyons:Yeah, true, very true, very true.
Steve McCowen:Anything else I would say. Lastly, what spoke to me, and I think what really speaks to me with a lot of the murders that we work, or just the people and the families that we worked with. I mean that I've said for a long time awards don't mean anything. Christmas cards, do you know? But to get that Christmas card for my family man, that means everything. Yeah.
Chris Schoonover:I still go to Walmart. Steve, I see you getting emotional. You're right. You're right. I still go to Walmart with a homicide that happened here. I still go to Walmart and her aunt and I won't speak about the victim. Her aunt still hugs me at the photographs section. It's like that's a million dollars to me. Somewhere in the 20 years of experience.
David Lyons:It's, I think, somewhere in the attic I've got a box that has cards and stuff like that. And I've said the same thing, that nothing speaks to you more than those people and the idea that you didn't make it all right, but you provided answers right.
David Lyons:And you, you, you help them start to metabolize the worst thing. You started out when we started the podcast. It's the worst thing they're going to deal with. Sure, that's what this whole thing is about. It's about those people. It's anything other than that doesn't really matter at that point. Right, thank you all very much. Do you want to take a step?
Wendy Lyons:Yeah, thank you guys so much. This, this case was really interesting with, with a lot of unexpected twists and turns, and thank you all so much for coming out. Steve, I'm so glad you've come. I hope you have more cases to bring to the table.
Steve McCowen:I appreciate the opportunity I really enjoyed myself. Thanks a lot for having me.
Wendy Lyons:And Chris, thank you so much for coming again.
Chris Schoonover:I do it anytime you ask.
Wendy Lyons:Thank you and to Goldie's family we we send our our respects for their loss and, and you know, like, like the gentleman said, if you have a missing person, please don't hesitate, Give those details. Every little bit helps as quick as you can get it out there. So thank you, gentlemen, and thank you to our listeners.
David Lyons:Thanks, thanks guys.
Chris Schoonover:Thank you for having us.
David Lyons:The Murder Police Podcast is hosted by Wendy and David Lyons and was created to honor the lives of crime victims, so their names are never forgotten. It is produced, recorded and edited by David Lyons. The Murder Police Podcast can be found on your favorite Apple or Android Podcast platform, as well as at murderpolicepodcastcom, where you will find show notes, transcripts, information about our presenters and a link to the official Murder Police Podcast merch store where you can purchase a huge variety of Murder Police Podcast swag. We are also on Facebook, instagram and YouTube, which is closed caption for those that are hearing impaired. Just search for the Murder Police Podcast and you will find us. If you have enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe for more and give us five stars in a written review. On Apple Podcast or wherever you download your podcasts, make sure you set your player to automatically download new episodes so you get the new ones as soon as they drop, and please tell your friends Lock it down.
David Lyons:Judy.