The Murder Police Podcast
The Murder Police Podcast
Who Killed Letha? | With Beverly Gumm and Patches Rutherford | 2 of 2
What if the key to solving a decades-old murder mystery was hidden in plain sight? Join us as we unravel the haunting and intricate story of Letha, a young girl whose sudden disappearance and tragic death have left a community in shock and despair. This episode recounts the frantic search efforts by her family and friends, the chilling discovery of her body under a pile of tin and wood behind her house, and the disturbing evidence that suggests she may have been moved posthumously. We confront the unsettling questions around the initial, seemingly thorough, search and the mysterious circumstances of her reappearance months later.
In this emotionally charged episode, we delve into the suspicious events surrounding Letha's disappearance, including eerie visits to a house infamous for chicken fighting, and the discovery of bloody sheets and a missing knife. We reflect on the relentless pursuit of justice by her aunt Mary, who has spent decades seeking answers amidst community fears and missed investigative opportunities. As we piece together firsthand accounts and minor details, we hold onto the hope that new leads might finally bring the closure Letha’s family has longed for over thirty years. Tune in for a powerful exploration of justice, loss, and the enduring quest for truth.
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But everybody just kind of quit talking about her. And it was just like you know, sweet little Letha, beautiful child, just lovable, loved her to death and you know she's just gone and nobody don't ever really know what happened.
Patches Rutherford:She loved my mom. I know she loved my mom and they were close. You know, it was always, always. Ain't there really this, ain't there really that?
Wendy Lyons:ain't there really is my mama, and you know warning the podcast you're about to listen to may contain graphic descriptions of violent assaults, murder and adult language. Listener discretion is advised. Who killed letha withha With Beverly Gumm and Patches Rutherford, part 2 of 2.
Beverly Gumm:Looking all around where she lived. Like I say, they lived kind of in the woods all back down through the trees and just everywhere and they couldn't find anything.
Patches Rutherford:Yeah, like my dad and my cousins, they walked all around down in the woods looking for her, went around and asked people, everybody that they thought that she might know, or anybody that she was friends with her. Friends. I mean, like everybody looked, you know, because everybody liked her. She had literally zero enemies. Everybody loved her.
Wendy Lyons:So I guess you all were just kind of like it's been nearly four months. We just aren't going to find her.
Beverly Gumm:And then I think, well, we all think she was moved, we think she was somewhere. Even the police said that when they found her it looked like she had been. She was kind of like in a fetal position, like she'd been either in like a trunk of a car or something humped up and they had moved her and put her underneath a big pile of tin garbage.
Wendy Lyons:Do you take me back to that day when she was found? Who contacted you all to say we have finally found her? Was it the police?
Beverly Gumm:No, it was a family member. I think it was a family member. I think it was her mom that called me and said they found Letha and I was like where? And it's behind their house, right behind their house.
Wendy Lyons:Which seemed odd if everybody had been looking.
Beverly Gumm:Yeah, that's what I think she had been moved because she hadn't been there before, because all those dogs would have found her. And I was like where we're? You know she's still here. They're all here getting her out now. So I went over there. It was horrible.
Beverly Gumm:I mean sitting there waiting for them to get her out. Of course she had to get a closer look and I didn't. She went on up and it bothered her bad. Actually, she went all the way up and actually saw her because you know she'd been decaying for four months. It wasn't a very pretty sight.
Wendy Lyons:So you actually Patches. You saw her.
Patches Rutherford:Mm-hmm. I climbed the fence and looked.
Beverly Gumm:Yeah, the police had it marked off, wouldn't let nobody go down there and there was like a wire thing and she went around kind of and just went over there and looked and she said she could tell it was her because she had on a nightgown that she knew that blown her.
Wendy Lyons:Oh, so obviously she didn't just get home from tobacco. She had probably gotten ready for bed and was ready to bed down for the night because she had to work tomorrow. Mm-hmm. So did they say you know, I'm so at a loss for words here. Did they say how she was just mysteriously found. Who went looking and just mysteriously found her? How did that come to be somebody's just walking? It's springtime were they picking berries were you doing out there looking is what I'm wondering.
Beverly Gumm:Her cousin was riding a moped or something.
Patches Rutherford:I think it was a four-wheeler, and was it his dog? It was actually his dog that found her.
Beverly Gumm:Yeah, he was just out riding his four-wheeler around and his dog found her, saw a part of her hand or something sticking out or something.
Patches Rutherford:I think he's had a foot. I don't remember now.
Wendy Lyons:So just out there riding because it's in the country and it's wooden, yeah, and that's what we all did out there.
Patches Rutherford:Anyways, it's horses or four-wheelers or whatever. You know, when you live in the country, you've got access to trees and trails and you use them. Yeah, he was just out on the school road.
Wendy Lyons:And then he spotted her where the dog found her.
Patches Rutherford:He said his dog got over in the. It's like a I don't want to say trash pile. It was more tin and wood, Just stuff where you throw something yeah, farm equipment, or you know. It was just like a hauler that you throw your crap in yeah, Because you don't haul that stuff to town and put it in the dump. And so his dog wouldn't come back. And so when he kept calling his dog, his dog was over there digging around, and when he went over there he found her.
Wendy Lyons:Wow, so I guess this person called the police and said we found her.
Patches Rutherford:I'm not sure if they contacted the police themselves, or if another family member did. I don't remember. They may have called, maybe you know a parent or somebody, but I just know that you know he was, you know, a family member. Founder.
Wendy Lyons:Wow, and, like I said, it makes you wonder how did all these people look here for so long? Probably walked right past that spot we had several family members that said they actually stood on the
Wendy Lyons:very tin pile that they found her in with dogs, with the dogs, when the police dogs went up there and there was nothing so yeah, it makes you wonder, was she indeed? Moved placed there that's you know, because you, you know, these canines are trained to find people, especially that are already deceased, and and so how would a canine not spot that, or people, if you said a foot sticking out?
Wendy Lyons:I mean granted, I know it's december, but here in kentucky we might have snow, we might have 80 degrees in december, who knows um. So it just makes you wonder if that foot was spotted, then how was it not spotted back then?
Beverly Gumm:Yeah, because, like you say, even in December, if she was there, I think those dogs would have known it, but she wasn't there. I don't think, I think they moved her and even I think that Lee Scott thought she'd been moved.
Wendy Lyons:Wow. So at that point what happened? They, I guess, get her and maybe take her for an autopsy to see if they can determine a cause of death and she had been stabbed to death.
Patches Rutherford:I think she was autopsied a couple of times before they actually determined they actually buried her and then resumed her body.
Beverly Gumm:Yeah, after they buried her, it few years later, a couple years later, they resumed her body and looked for more evidence.
Wendy Lyons:What do you think they did that? For just to see if there was an additional cause of death, or just strictly for more evidence?
Patches Rutherford:I guess, yeah, I think it had kind of become a cold case and then there was little attention to it and somebody had picked it back up and and I don't think like the first autopsy revealed a lot of information, um, and so they had decided to autopsy her again, um, and so, you know, just to kind of get like maybe a better picture of you know what had happened. And that second autopsy, I believe, is when they determined that there were, like I think they said there were like knife marks or something on her bones.
Beverly Gumm:And they kind of said that everyone who had stamped her had done it from behind, like they had come up behind her. Oh, wow, and yeah and she. They found the knife.
Wendy Lyons:Oh they did and I think it was her knife, the one that was missing out of her purse. Mm-hmm, where was the knife found?
Beverly Gumm:I can't really remember where they said the knife. Was it in the house or was it? I think they found the knife I don't remember.
Patches Rutherford:I know they found it on the property but I don't remember if it was in the house or outside.
Wendy Lyons:But they did find the knife on the property but I don't remember if it was in the house or outside, but they did find it on the property. So had there been signs in the house of any trauma or signs of a struggle or blood, they wouldn't let us go in the room, the room where she had slept and stayed.
Beverly Gumm:They had it off, with those yellow ribbons they used.
Patches Rutherford:They kept it sealed off. They kept it.
Wendy Lyons:So when they took it down, did her brother say that room was a mess?
Patches Rutherford:I don't again, I don't think that he, he never said anything really about the room.
Beverly Gumm:I don't think there was any. Any evidence?
Patches Rutherford:I don't think there was any evidence in the room that the room. I don't ever remember anybody saying that the room had been disturbed.
Wendy Lyons:I'm just wondering where the stabbing took place, if there was evidence of that, or maybe she was taken off the property, but then you're saying, if the knife was on the property, did they bring the knife back? There's so many unanswered questions.
Patches Rutherford:I think they did it in the house.
Wendy Lyons:And maybe cleaned up or something. Yeah, yeah, that's a lot. So I guess does the, I guess her family. We've talked to one of her friends. I guess the friend certainly had an idea. I'm wondering does the family, without calling names, have you all you know, put your heads together and kind of come up with we think this is what happened or we think this is who did it?
Patches Rutherford:Of course, yeah, we kind of have.
Wendy Lyons:And everybody kind of has the same general idea of the person.
Beverly Gumm:I think so, of course, you have no proof, right? So what's anything that proof?
Wendy Lyons:That's right, it's nothing.
Patches Rutherford:There's, you know, little things that have you know, like hindsight is 20-20. I remember the day, so she would have been missing. That would have been her first day missing. Obviously, we didn't know she was missing yet.
Patches Rutherford:I had went to the house with my dad. They were all chicken fighters, that's what they did, that was their pastime. And when me and dad got there and I don't even remember why we went it might have been to cut more wood, probably cut more wood. But I went up there with my dad and there was a couple of guys there and there was a barrel out in the yard in the front. It was the backyard, but it was kind of like the front yard because we used their back door like a front door, so technically would have been the backyard. Um, there was a big barrel there and it was full of like bloody sheets. And I said I looked over and I said man, y'all been trimming chickens, because that's what chicken fighters do when their stags get up to a certain age they cut their comb off and all the little hangly bits that other roosters can grab onto. And I said y'all been cutting chickens and they were like yeah, and I was like, oh, and me and my dad just went on about our day.
Wendy Lyons:Didn't think anything else about it.
Patches Rutherford:Never thought a thing about it, not a thing.
Wendy Lyons:Wow, Now do you know if her bed sheet was missing off of her bed.
Patches Rutherford:We don't know, we don't know, we don't know. Those are details, we don't know and, like I said, at the time, it never even occurred to me that those sheets could be for anything other than trim and restoration, because that's what they did when they reached a certain age.
Wendy Lyons:Yeah, Now, the person that you all kind of have in your mind when you said, were you all trimming those stags? Was that person there?
Patches Rutherford:Yeah.
Wendy Lyons:And that person would often trim also. So it wouldn't have been odd that that person was there. No, no, no, it wasn't odd it wasn't odd that?
Patches Rutherford:I mean, if they were trimming roosters that day, it wouldn't have been odd.
Wendy Lyons:No, I mean that that person was there trimming.
Patches Rutherford:No, it would not have been odd. He was there a lot.
Wendy Lyons:Wow, did Letha did? Did letha ever give you any indication through your else talking or you like you, because since you were like a mom and you're like a sister did she ever give you any inkling that that person kind of just made your head yeah, bgbs kind of.
Wendy Lyons:Yeah she did kind of creeped around so you mentioned that, that that you had looking back, that the sheet was like now. That may mean something which who knew if the police maybe they burned the sheet was like now? That means something who knew if the police maybe they burned the sheet before the police could investigate.
Patches Rutherford:I'm sure they did.
Wendy Lyons:I'm sure, as soon as we left, that's what happened, because you noticed it, so what other signs were there that you thought you know? Now that makes sense.
Patches Rutherford:Just minor details, like you know, her brother telling my mom that you know the door was open and the only thing missing was her knife out of her purse and all her stuff was there, and just like the people that went to pick her up saying that the door was open a couple of inches, you know just kind of things like that. And then you know my mom has like firsthand accounts of people that have told her stuff that would be here safe for me. So but you know, just again, you know the people that kind of were coming and going after her dad died, the things that were happening that wouldn't have happened when he was there.
Patches Rutherford:You know, I mean, it was just like once you step back and you start looking, at the big picture of you know, the people that were there and kind of how their life has went and the direction their life has went after in the years you know. I mean we all grew up, we all, most of us, grew up, got jobs, you know, got careers, you know so, and the person that she was the most afraid of their life did not go in that kind of a direction now Beverly Pat just said that you have some things that you know.
Wendy Lyons:I guess feelings are things that you've been told. Is there anything, without revealing names, that you can share or that you feel comfortable sharing, that maybe?
Beverly Gumm:Well, like I say, the person that told me some stuff was, of course, for me it's just what she said, and because I have no way to prove that what she said was true. But it added up what she told me and I said, well, did you tell the police this? And she said yeah, she said, but they don't really count her word as being.
Wendy Lyons:So the person who came to you, her story with regard to the police just wasn't really credible because of who she was.
Beverly Gumm:Yeah, and they just didn't take her serious enough Because I said well, why didn't you report that? Well, I did. They just didn't believe me, Did you? They said it wouldn't stand up in court. I did. But some of the things that she said yeah, Like, how would she have known maybe? Yeah, you know, and I think too, what they thought is, if this comes to trial and they can't prove nothing, then it's done Right, you know. So I didn't think they felt like that. They could probably prove that she was telling the truth.
Wendy Lyons:So that was kind of something else to sit in the back of your mind for all these years, like you kind of know, but you can't do anything about it.
Beverly Gumm:Yeah.
Wendy Lyons:So I guess, years passed and everybody grew up and moved on and nothing ever became of it?
Beverly Gumm:No, because they would look. And then she had another aunt that was my husband's sister. Her name was Mary, because she's dead now. But she would really try to call the police and try to find out if there was any new leads and all, and it just never went away. It's like it kind of got to just be a dead end and nobody looked anymore. So and she's been gone. What 32 years, I guess.
Patches Rutherford:Something about I don't know.
Beverly Gumm:Yeah, because she went missing like December of 91, and then we found her in April of 92. So it's been 33 years or something like that 32 years or whatever.
Wendy Lyons:So do you all still keep in touch with her brother, her mom.
Beverly Gumm:I see him every now and then. I don't. I don't know her mom still keep in touch with her brother, her mom. I see him every now and then. I don't know her mom. Her mom kind of got a little sick. I have another daughter, rachel, that she worked in a nursing home in Nicholasville and she said I believe this mom was in the nursing home and of course I don't think she's there now. I think they moved her. But you know, she just the man she was married to. He died. So I hadn't seen her mother for like years and years.
Patches Rutherford:So I don't see her brother, I don't see him. I see him every now and then.
Beverly Gumm:I saw him at Walmart in Nicholasville one day, Just very rare. Every now and then I see him. Of course he's got a wife and some kids of his own. He lives, I don't know, in Nicosia, I guess. I don't ever see him. But everybody just kind of quit talking about her. And it was just like you know, sweet little Letha, beautiful child, just lovable, loved her to death and you know she's just gone and nobody don't ever really know what happened.
Patches Rutherford:She loved my mom. I know she loved my mom and they were close. You know, it was always ain't there really this and ain't there really that and ain't there really is my mama, and you know.
Wendy Lyons:Now did they end up having a once they had found her? You said that they had done two autopsies on her. Is she buried here locally, I guess down near where her home was.
Beverly Gumm:It's in Lexington, at the cemetery in Lexington. What's the name of that thing?
Patches Rutherford:I don't know. They're all buried there.
Beverly Gumm:It's that one that's on for sure as well, I know, but I can't think of the name of it. I mean the whole family is buried there.
Wendy Lyons:They're across from Cardinal Hill.
Beverly Gumm:Yeah, that's the one yeah.
Wendy Lyons:So you all had her a service after they discovered her.
Beverly Gumm:Yeah, she was closed casket. Now discovered her. She has closed closed casket. Now I can.
Wendy Lyons:So I guess you know in in closing, what would your all's hope be? That that there is a. I mean, obviously probably nobody's going to come forward. You wish they would, but it is a a cold case and I think David has spoken. I wasn't able to attend, but David had spoken to a couple of the detectives that are working that, so I guess ultimately, your all's hope would be what?
Patches Rutherford:Interview different people. Talk to people that you know that you haven't talked to yet I've never been talked to. My mom's never been talked to. You know she's one of the last remaining people adults and there were adults at the time alive. There's a few others, but not many you know to talk to. You know the people that saw her every day Interview people you haven't interviewed yet, reopen it and put the pieces together. You know.
Wendy Lyons:The people that was coming in and out of the house. You said there was a lot of people that would come and go Makes me wonder if any of those people have ever been interviewed since they were coming and going from the house.
Beverly Gumm:I think some of them were, but but they didn't ever get in a hurry with them. It's just like nobody knew nothing.
Patches Rutherford:I think back then a lot of people were just, it was fear they were afraid to. I think they had strong suspicions even back then, but I think they were afraid to tell what would happen to them.
Wendy Lyons:So maybe your hope would be years later now they're older maybe they'll speak up.
Patches Rutherford:Maybe they're not afraid anymore.
Beverly Gumm:And they're not afraid. But one of them that was there that probably could have told us everything. He's dead now too. One of the boys that was there.
Patches Rutherford:Wow, that nine times out of ten was probably a witness. He's dead now too. One of the boys that was there.
Beverly Gumm:Wow that nine times out of ten was probably a witness.
Patches Rutherford:He's dead.
Beverly Gumm:It's just hard to figure it all out.
Wendy Lyons:Well, our hope also would be I mean in the grand scheme of things that we could assist in breaking this open for you all. So the family has answers. I know it doesn't, unfortunately, bring Letha back, but it would be nice to at least get justice for her and answers for you all.
Beverly Gumm:Yeah, because we never had closure with her Early on. We hoped that they would find out who did it and had to be paid for their crime. But then after a while it's just like, well, they're never going to find who did that.
Patches Rutherford:Yeah, so you got 32, about 32 years. She's been dead.
Beverly Gumm:32 years and 32 years they've done what they wanted to, so she's been dead longer than she lived.
Wendy Lyons:Yeah than she lived. Well, I want to ask you all, if you could speak to Letha today, what would you say to her?
Beverly Gumm:I'd tell her I love her, I miss her. But if I could have done anything different back then I would have. But I just didn't know how bad the situation was when she talked about how uncomfortable she had gotten, just didn't seem to realize how bad it was. And, like I said, I had a baby at that time that was nine months old and I was real busy with her and I probably just didn't pay enough attention to Aletha. But yeah, if I could talk to her now, I'd tell her I love her very much.
Patches Rutherford:Patches, I guess kind of the same thing. I love you. I'm sorry that I didn't pick up on what you were trying to say without saying it, and I wish she would have been brave enough to tell my dad have to tell my dad, because I think if she had told him that, he might have got to the bottom of things.
Beverly Gumm:Like I say, he's dead now too. There's so many people that were there then. That's not here anymore, but he loved her like a daughter too, and she loved him. But I think the people that she was afraid of she was afraid to get anybody else involved, afraid that it would be harmful for them and I think that's why a lot of people that might have knew something wouldn't really say nothing because they feared for their own life.
Wendy Lyons:Well, I hope that somehow, someway we get some answers for you all and for Letha, and we really appreciate you all taking your time to speak with us. I know it's not ever easy to peel those layers off and reopen those wounds, but thank you so much, beverly and Patches, for sharing Letha's story and I hope somebody, somewhere, comes forward or maybe a new interview, like you said, patches, can take place and shed some light with these new detectives that have taken over and hopefully we'll get some answers for your family.
Patches Rutherford:I hope so.
Beverly Gumm:Thank you all so much. Thank you, thank you very much.
David Lyons:The Murder Police Podcast is hosted by Wendy and David Lyons and was created to honor the lives of crime victims, so their names are never forgotten. It is produced, recorded and edited by David Lyons, where you will find show notes, transcripts, information about our presenters and a link to the official Murder Police Podcast merch store, where you can purchase a huge variety of Murder Police Podcast swag. We are also on Facebook, instagram and YouTube, which is closed caption for those that are hearing impaired. Just search for the Murder Police Podcast and you will find us. If you have enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe for more and give us five stars and a written review. On Apple Podcasts or wherever you download your podcasts, make sure you set your player to automatically download new episodes so you get the new ones as soon as they drop, and please tell your friends Lock it down.
David Lyons:Judy.
