The Murder Police Podcast
The Murder Police Podcast
Never Forget Little Timmy | Part 3
A young man's mysterious disappearance has left a community in turmoil and a family in search of answers. Timothy Sterner's story is one of heartache, resilience, and the relentless pursuit of truth. We are joined by his uncle Terrance and grandmother Sandy, who share not only personal stories and cherished memories of Timmy but also the immense void his absence has left in their lives. Sandy opens up about the role of faith and love in navigating through the darkest times, while Terrence recounts the joy of teaching Timmy to ride a motorcycle, a testament to Timmy's adventurous spirit.
Timmy's life was a complex tapestry of challenges and hidden talents. Despite facing battles with substance abuse and trust issues, his prowess on the football field shone brightly. We discuss the pride his family felt when a coach recognized his potential, paving the way for moments of achievement that Timmy cherished, such as the excitement surrounding an award ceremony at school. Through these tales, we highlight the importance of guidance and support, underscoring the lasting impact Timmy had on those around him even in times of adversity.
The search for Little Timmy remains fraught with frustration and unanswered questions. As Terrence outlines his ongoing quest for closure amid the discovery of Timmy's car near a wreck site, the emotional toll on the family becomes palpable. The community's efforts to piece together what happened are marred by a lack of cooperation from those last seen with Timmy, leaving a cloud of confusion and heartbreak that lingers. Join us as we capture the family's unwavering hope for resolution and peace in a community determined to uncover the truth.
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they love little Timmy and they, they miss little Timmy and they, you know everybody, the whole family just wants his burial to be here and has peace of mind. You know, in that sort of way we just want his body and just say you know we're a big forgiven family and uh warning the podcast you're about to listen to may contain graphic descriptions of violent assaults, murder and adult language.
Wendy Lyons:Listener discretion is advised. Welcome to the Murder Police Podcast. Thank you for joining us as we continue to look into the missing person case of Timothy Sterner in the episodes we call Never Forget Little Timmy. In this episode, we are joined by Timmy's uncle, Terrence Sterner, and Timmy's grandmother, Sandy Sterner. Let's learn more about Timmy and his family. Welcome to the Murder Police Podcast. We have with us today Terrence and Sandy. We are here today to talk about the missing case of Timmy Sterner, who we will refer to as Little Timmy hereafter, and David, of course. So how are you, Terrence, and let me thank you for taking your time to come in and talk with us today.
Terrance Sterner:Thank you, I'm doing fine. I'm doing really good right now. I really appreciate y'all coming down and having this time with us.
Wendy Lyons:Thank you for talking with us.
Sandy Sterner:Ms Sandy, thank you for coming and how are you today? A bit apprehensive because you know he hasn't been found. So sometimes I get leery of that, because it's very hard on parents and children. That because it's very hard on parents and children and I'm so happy that you all want to share with us.
Sandy Sterner:Well, we're happy as well. My grandson was a great guy and that was one man that knew it. So did his dad, and he loved his father so deeply and he always shared that with me. He had so much pride in his dad. His dad started working at 16 years old and is still working for Mr Corman, and that's saying a lot. That's saying a whole lot. And how little Timmy grew up.
Wendy Lyons:Well, that's what we're hoping to do today is to dig in and talk about Timmy, bring some light to who he is.
Terrance Sterner:That was great Mom, that was really good Very very sweet what. That was really good. I mean that was right to the heart. I like that. That's what it was really good. I mean that was right to the heart. I mean I like that. That's what it's all about, I know, and it's true.
Sandy Sterner:It's the soul that hurts. Yeah, I know it's like a rock, and if you don't give it to God and this is what I've told his dad if you don't give it to God, you'll go insane. And we're not the only people in this world, even today, that are losing children with all the fighting and the gunfire, and I work in a hospital and I see that pain. I see the miracles and I see the pain. And you have to be there for other people also, because we're not the only ones, and we need to share and love one another, because that's all God wants, is unconditional love.
Wendy Lyons:That's right.
Sandy Sterner:And I'm sorry that there are people out there that think they can take someone's life but I'll pray for them too, but that's very hard sometimes that think they can take someone's life but I'll pray for them too, but that's very hard sometimes.
Sandy Sterner:Sometimes you've got to forgive yourself before you can forgive other people, but this has been quite devastating. It's harder at night, you know, and I can go to work and I can drop everything because I've got people to take care of, but the nighttime is terrible. So you can't do anything but know you're dealing with your two sons that were so close to him and how much he loved them. It's just totally amazing because I guarantee you, when Terrence went up, there and it was like boom.
Sandy Sterner:I said why did you do that? They could have harmed you. It doesn't make any difference, he was up there, he was up there, and he was up there for his brother too. So I'm proud of him. But it's hard to deal with their pain and as a mother you're dealing with three and my grandchild was so great.
Sandy Sterner:I'll never forget Tim and Tammy coming over to the house. You could put that child down. Boom, he was gone. And that arm of pumping like he was doing the water thing. You know tammy couldn't catch him. Half the time he had to end up at a fence or someplace where she could get him. Then one day they both came over with him. He took off, she caught him, brought him back, she set him down again and, boom, he was off. But he was headed towards the road in a car. I've never seen anything, but I thought my son was a superman, his dad. He had him scooped up in a heartbeat. That's when he went inside, but that's, that's the way it was with him. He was always. Even when we went bowling he was running down the lanes. You know we took the whole family. Remember, dan's? Was you there at Dan's birthday party?
Terrance Sterner:I think it might have been one or two, but yeah, that was Timmy for sure little Timmy yeah he was on his
Terrance Sterner:way yeah, I taught him how to ride a motorcycle. He was a little fella, he couldn't even touch the forks, but he was willing but to give him something to do and he loved the speed and I it was a 100. I'll never forget it and I rode with him and rode with him, taught him the gas and everything and second gear was fine for him, and I rode with him for two days, solid and back, you know, to get him to ride that bike and uh, never forget, it was a honda 100 and uh, he went down. I just slid off the back of it finally because he was controlling it just fine. And then he went all the way down the field and he turned around and as soon as he seen me he fell over he realized you weren't there.
Wendy Lyons:He didn't know.
Terrance Sterner:I was there when he realized I wasn't there to pull. Yeah, he didn't know I was there. When he realized I wasn't there, he fell over and I was like, dang, you had this. He'd come running at me like he was hurt or something. I'm like what is wrong? Because he stepped right off the bike. He wasn't going that fast Because he was going to come around the curb and as soon as he seen me he fell over and he, he's just looking at me going.
Terrance Sterner:I hate you, uncle Terrence. What did you do that to me for? Well, you can always, when he was in trouble or something, I can hear his voice now, uncle Terrence, uncle Terrence, uncle Terrence, beating on my window. Uncle Terrence, I just hear it all day long and it's just the memories of him.
Terrance Sterner:Just when he was a baby, I went to pick up his dad for work and little Timmy was sitting there in the pocket full of Jolly Ranchers. He was two years old. He was sitting there eating cereal and I said I'm going to give him a Jolly Rancher. Timmy jumped back and said don't give him a Jolly Rancher. I got four kids of my own. I'll give him Jolly Ranchers at two years old. So I'm giving him one anyway. He said well, you better watch him, he'll probably choke on it. Well, there's me, uncle Terrence, and next thing I'm doing something. I hear this. I turn around a little Timmy's sitting there with a bowl of cereal. So I go over and I just do a quick Heimlich on him and he spits up all over the table. And Timmy comes around the corner at the same time and says I told you not to give him a Jolly Rancher.
David Lyons:That had I told you so written all over it all the way up to that, For sure.
Terrance Sterner:One day I went he was always into something. I went over to the house to get this to Dad. It wasn't too long after that I look in and little Timmy's got the. He wasn't but two years old now. He had his chair pushed to the counter. He had a big old thing of coffee in his arms like this and a spoon, and there was coffee everywhere. Nobody, it was just, and I was back out there a little early. Nobody was up and I'm beating on them and I didn't want Timmy to get down off the counter himself. So I did punch the window out and Timmy comes in there and jumps. My buddy's dad, what'd you punch the window for? I didn't want him to come down off the counter, but he knew what he was doing.
David Lyons:Little.
Terrance Sterner:Timmy. Always he survived some of the weirdest things that day?
David Lyons:Was he pretty close to your kids? Yeah, he was definitely. Oh, yeah.
Sandy Sterner:Especially Josh, especially Josh.
Wendy Lyons:Right here you can see him and Josh.
Sandy Sterner:I bought Josh because it was Josh's birthday. And that's Timmy behind him and this is one of those chairs that's got music and stuff and here I'll just pass it around.
Terrance Sterner:But, like Mom said, unconditional love that goes in the family is something that Mom brought to the family. Yeah, you did Believe me, you brought it to the family.
Sandy Sterner:Well, I'll never forget the time that him and Josh I can't remember where we was going, but we was on a little trip or trek going someplace those two were in the back seat telling me how they was going to run away from home, go to Florida, start their own life.
Sandy Sterner:I think they was like 13 years old. I got the biggest bang out of that and I said and just how are you going to get down there? Oh, we're going to hitchhike. And I kept asking them different questions. Well, what are you gonna do when you? Oh, we're gonna get jobs, don't worry, we can get jobs. They had to fantasize and, like you wouldn't believe, and I'm going. Oh, my goodness, I had the most fun listening to their little stories how they was going to make it in life and be rich in Florida. Totally understood what they was talking about. I said well, why don't you put your pinkies together and just say you're Siamese twins, and then they'll never separate you?
Terrance Sterner:I remember I'd gotten in a little trouble and I'd gotten home and Mom would come in and it was a couple days after that and she said Terrence, I think Timmy's on that stuff. She said something about heroin. She said something about heroin I don't even know how to say it Heroin, heroin, heroin, heroin. Yeah, she said something about it. I said no, because I'd seen little Timmy. I'd been hanging around little Timmy and everything and I said uh, she said what's wrong with him? Why ain't he coming home and stuff? And I said he come through the door or something. I run at him. I said boy, you on that hair wrong.
Sandy Sterner:he just looked at me like, shut up, no really that was if I found anything in the house. It was horrifying and I'd call the police and have them come. One time there was some black stuff in a little bag. I thought it was cigarette gunk that he'd burned. So a policeman came over and he says that's called tar. I said, well, what is it? What is that THC? I don't know what it was.
Wendy Lyons:Yeah, you extracted it from your mom. Anyway, the officer took it away.
Sandy Sterner:Timmy went to rehab and that's what it was all about.
Terrance Sterner:Yeah, Mom was serious about that. Yeah, he went to rehab a lot with me.
Sandy Sterner:His whole demeanor in life. He loves it and I don't. You know, he just couldn't seem to adjust to grown-ups. When I put him in school and I walked in there and those people were just loving him and smiling and he was just so mean. I said why are you that way? He didn't trust people. But then, as he went through school, they was having a award ceremony and I said I'm going to come to your award ceremony. He said no, no, grandma, because he didn't. I guess he didn't think he was going to get anything. And I said you don't want me to come? And he said no, so I didn't go. But all of a sudden he rushed in that door when he got off the bus and he says Grandma, the bus. And he says Grandma, grandma, you just wouldn't believe it. He says you just don't know what it's like. I wished you had been there. He said I've never felt that feeling before. I've never felt, grandma, look what I got. And he gave me that and I've always treasured it.
Sandy Sterner:I've never let it go 95% attendance during the school year and he said I just wish you had been there to see me. He says I've never felt it. So he felt it in the soul and the pride the pride of receiving it exactly, and when he came to visit right after he got out of jail, that's the first thing I showed him, just to lift him up.
Wendy Lyons:Yeah.
David Lyons:Make him remember that feeling. Yes, how old was he when he got?
Sandy Sterner:that he was. What grade was he in in Providence?
Terrance Sterner:He was like 10 or 9 or 10 years old, because he was a football star.
Wendy Lyons:And I didn't know that Really.
Terrance Sterner:Nine years. Yeah, he was about 10 years old, no he was in Providence.
Sandy Sterner:Was it Providence?
Terrance Sterner:Yeah, 2012, 2013.
Sandy Sterner:He had left, he had come back to me and I and we had to, but then I was at West West Jesmond he went to West Jesmond and his he was he loved football football and that coach all of us actually had josh in there and I thought I'd put try to put josh in in uh football.
Sandy Sterner:And he said what's your last name? And I said sterner and he said tim ster man. That coach went nuts. He said that boy would have been in the leagues. He said he's that good, I would take him in a heartbeat. And I was just shocked because Timmy was good at what he excelled at and he loved that coach.
David Lyons:So if he put his heart into something, he could really do it.
Sandy Sterner:Oh yeah, his dad had him in football and I'd tell him to ride a motorcycle. His dad had him in football.
Terrance Sterner:So they always rode four-wheelers, three-wheelers and motorcycles and his dad put him in football and I'd go up there and watch him and whistle him on and carry on. I'd be on the fence, me, and his dad would be just pushing him, pushing him, and then he'd be so proud when he'd do something you know, and he'd get off her and he'd say, uncle turd, do you see that? And I'd be like, yeah, I sure did, you got him. Good, you do. You see how I grabbed him, threw him down the ground? I sure did. And I'm sitting and I was in there going. I didn't see it. Dang, dang, y'all was all just all crumbled together.
David Lyons:Big, massive, yeah.
Terrance Sterner:Exactly, I had to pick him out. Yeah, yeah, it was something else. I think one day he went out and was playing matches or something.
Terrance Sterner:And come back in and his fingers were burnt and I said what have you done? And I just freaked out and just wondered what he's burned down and all I did was like he was behind a shed and trying to make a fire and he couldn't make it. I thought to be the right thing to do, instead of him burning himself up, go teach him how to make a fire. Yeah, yeah, I wish I hadn't done that. Yeah, exactly.
Terrance Sterner:No reason to get him burned. Yeah, but yeah, it's just little things. And Mom would get on to me because I would want them to learn the right way to do things and she would say they're too young. They're too young, Just like when I learned to ride a motorcycle. I went up in the house. She'd say where's little Timmy? Oh, he's back riding a motorcycle. He better be with somebody. No, he's not. He is what it is. The gentleman came and told me he'd give me, for want of endangerment, for letting him ride it.
David Lyons:I was like, oh, okay, but you know he'd go ride it himself, right yeah, If you didn't teach him.
Sandy Sterner:Yeah, he would.
Terrance Sterner:I bought him a scooter, scooter, a ball pit.
Sandy Sterner:But you know he would go out on his scooter and guess what? I told him don't let anyone drive it, it's insurance. You know you got to think about these things. You could get grandma to drive it. He always there was that peer pressure on him. He just wanted to be liked. Yeah, and you know you try to teach them. No, you have to be your own person. And he just wanted to be liked, so he'd let somebody else drive it.
Terrance Sterner:I'm sure I didn't drive the wagon all that well with him, but you know there was rough ways to go and there was easy ways to go. But that peer pressure that you get, you know he had that, oh, you know he had that, oh yeah. But he had such a big heart and he hated people. He didn't like to see people being told no, you know, or having something took away from them or something like that. You know he was a giver.
Sandy Sterner:He was a child that loved children. He would babysit oh my gosh and babysit and take care of some of his girlfriend's children that he thought was girlfriends but they weren't. But when he gave love, he gave love and animals, oh, you could not hurt an animal Because it didn't work out with little Timmy and his girlfriends.
Terrance Sterner:But I tell you what. Every one of them could come in here, right?
Sandy Sterner:now? Oh yes, they will, and I'll tell you little.
Terrance Sterner:Timmy was such a lovable person that he loved too much, but you know he wasn't home 24 hours before. He had a girl calling him up. Yeah, yeah, you know it's crazy.
Sandy Sterner:And he'd be there.
Sandy Sterner:I think the youngest memory that I've ever had, though, was well, when he was his grandpa and I took Tim and little Tim he was just a baby. We took him to the bull rodeo in Georgetown. Well, it was so funny. He was too young to even notice, but then later on, I knew all the bulls, all the cowboys, everything else that we'd watched on TV. I'd put him on my leg and bounce him when that bull was bouncing the other one, and he would laugh and laugh, and then I'd give him to Grandpa when my legs got tired, and he would do it, and so rodeo was his big deal, and he loved rodeo, so we had taken him once. Where is that picture?
David Lyons:Did he ever try to ride? No, just horses, just horses. Yeah, I took them all horseback riding that picture?
Sandy Sterner:Did he ever try to ride? No, just horses, just horses. Yeah, I took them all horseback riding.
Terrance Sterner:I used to be from Colorado. Do you want to try to do anything there? It is.
Sandy Sterner:I used to be from Colorado and I'd bring the horses down from the high country Wow. Every year, and it was you know. He'd hear that and he wanted to know all about it. So I took the whole family horse back. Yeah, oh yeah, he's a nut. We had our, we'd go to the zoo. It was a family thing, you know.
David Lyons:I mean we were all there I was putting together that the cousins are probably close. They are.
Terrance Sterner:They are really close. They've gotten in so much trouble they've come close to having their all their butts whipped at the same time. But I mean it's that close. The Summer Jordan and Josh and little Timmy they are like brothers and sisters, more than cousins, and it's really even the in-laws. You know it's married into the family. They've gotten to know little Timmy and they love little Timmy and they miss little Timmy. And you know everybody, the whole family, just wants his burial to be here and has peace of mind. You know, in that sort of way we just want his body and just to say you know we're a big forgiving family and I couldn't say I was growing up so much as I am now. You know we all grow up but that's all we all just wish for is a body.
Sandy Sterner:You know we need the closure is what we need and we may not get it, but as a family we will do what we have to do. And on the 4th of July of this year we had a family. We will do what we have to do. And on the 4th of July of this year we had a balloon and the family got together and Ellen came and Keith came and we wrote on the balloons what we wanted to say to them and then set them up Nice With the firecrackers and the fireworks, and then everybody in the family, we had a prayer and anybody that wanted to speak. After that I was starting to get emotional. But Summer, ellen's daughter, was just wonderful with her words. Everyone was so wonderful with their words and it was a very, very wonderful memorial for him. But we still don't have it.
Wendy Lyons:So why don't you, terrence and Cindy, why don't you all lead us into obviously we're here because little Timmy's missing. Why don't we talk about when he first went missing and what has been going on since that time?
Sandy Sterner:Well, timmy had just gotten out of jail. Remember the week before I felt that everything went out of my body and I came home and I thought it was one of my sons and I said, oh my God, well it's not them. I said I felt somebody die and that breath just went out of them and I said it was like a roller coaster. And that was a week before, but Tammy was still in jail then, so nobody ever thought about him. And then that next Monday, after he got out of jail, his mother brought him straight to me and I was doing wash in the laundromat and I heard the doorbell and I looked out and there he was. Well, it was a rush. It was such a rush to hug that boy and have him tell me I love you, grandma. And then him and his mom came in and we talked for a while.
Wendy Lyons:And this was in April of this year 2024.
Sandy Sterner:Yes, it was the day before he went missing, because the next day somebody put it on that he was missing up at Tammy's and we were just all trying to figure it out and then I think Tammy came and talked to you and said go up to the place where he was really missing from.
Sandy Sterner:Yeah, and he was up there in a heartbeat and he put himself in danger. Those are cliffs and there's water down there and he could have killed himself. I said why would you do that? But I thinkmy came to you, didn't she?
Terrance Sterner:and said please go help me find him that night after he come to the house and he waited for me to get there before he left. Uh, I drove from the 68 down the river all the way back to nicholasville to see little timmy. I was excited. I gotta go, gotta go. I dropped everything yeah, he asked for terrence.
Terrance Sterner:Yeah, and I come around. Come around the door. We hugged. I said well, get with me, we're going to go fishing. And for some reason I kept getting phone calls that night but I didn't answer my phone. But that morning I got up and I was like, well, are you going to go fishing? And I text him. No answer. And it was right at 1010, somewhere around there, quarter after 10. Tammy, his mom, come barreling through my driveway. She said little Timmy's missing, he's at a wreck and we can't find him. I said I threw my boots on, got in my truck, rushed I take me to the wreck site. The wreck site was supposed to be and you can see where the car went over into the hillside of rocks and stuff. But the car didn't go all the way over, it just went like 15 foot off the road really and stopped. And so I was like, well, maybe he thought he'd get in trouble because I don't think he had a license.
Sandy Sterner:No, he didn't, because when he was at the house.
Terrance Sterner:So I thought, well, well, I'll go search the countryside for him. Maybe he's down in this hall or somewhere and uh, just hiding out until he knows uncle turns and dad somebody find him. And uh, so I went down to there and it's pouring rain and that creek down there was just gushing and when you stepped in it it would take my foot and try to yank, so I couldn't get to the other side so I had to jig jack back and forth down through there and I did about half a mile down that road up until I come up across the, the road down at the bottom river road and I the houses down there, I come up out of there and then I think it was tammy, picked me up and then my girlfriend met us on up the hill. Again, we couldn't find him and I was just like, well, he's gone somewhere to some friend, something. Yeah, well, my girlfriend was out driving, somebody said something about something and this and that, and I was like, well, that must have been them. Everything's fine, okay, he'll show up.
Terrance Sterner:And then next day there was no show. And that's when I got concerned and I went down to the place where he was supposedly been at that time and searched the property, asked some questions, got my dog. I got a dog from there. I had a little dog representing little Timmy, her name's Baby.
Terrance Sterner:But if I'd known then what I know now, I probably would have handled things a little different. But it's just, I don't know. But then I knew he was gone. That's when I knew he was gone, because the people that was there and the way it went down, there's just nothing added up. There was no adding. A didn't go to b and b didn't go to c, you know, and it was like one person. So now it's been since april and I'm from this town. I know lots of people. I know the people where he was at. I know the people that live behind him. I know the people that live on each side of him. But the people were of that house that he was at and I've heard so many horrific stories and I've heard some of the things. I mean I had people come to me and say, what do you? Got one with me. I didn't have nothing to it, don't even said your name, you know, and I keep myself to not just stay quiet about it.
David Lyons:Really, yeah, so without giving an address, what area? When we talk about where this happened with the creek and everything, what area is this?
Terrance Sterner:I would say it would be the east side of Nicholasville. River Road is the road that he would come missing from down there. You just go to the end of Sufferwell there and forget the road number.
David Lyons:So it ends up we have a place where he was last seen and people who were there exactly.
Terrance Sterner:There's plenty of people who've seen him there that said that he was there. The car that he was driving was picked up there from his mother. She went and got her car from there why people don't come to me Beyond me? Was picked up there from his mother.
Sandy Sterner:She went and got her car from there. Why, why, people don't come to me. Driving is beyond me.
Terrance Sterner:I ask the question why people you know you think you have friends, you know you've got the social network and you think them are your friends. No, they're not your friends, they're just social. You know somebody sitting there bored or you know, wants to say something, you know stuff like that. They're not your friends. You don't have friends. I have family, that's my friends and I rely on that. But little Timmy, I guess where he's young, maybe, I don't know, if I didn't have his father, I don't know. It seems like we failed him somewhere because he thought he had friends.
Terrance Sterner:I heard so many different things and it's disturbing because I'm his uncle and I have to investigate this and find out what happened to my nephew for my brother. And it gets irritating because people think well, the other day I asked somebody. They said well, won't they tell me anything? Why won't they talk to me? I'm the most understanding person. They can come to me, you know, tell me anything. Why won't they talk to me?
Terrance Sterner:I'm the most understanding person. They can come to me, you know, and you get half. But they just tell me that I've caused some trouble in this town before, you know. But that's not me, no more. And I just want, you know, we just want closure. That's it. I'm not trying to go after nobody or trying to hurt nobody, no more. Everything causes ripple effect. No matter what I do, it's going to cause a ripple effect. And so I mean I just don't want no part of that ripple effect because I know it ain't going to be good and it's a shame on all parties of what's the consequences and that repercussions and everything of the whole situation that it could come down to.
Sandy Sterner:But the stories you know.
Terrance Sterner:You know and the people that love Timmy.
Sandy Sterner:You hear the story. Well, what's his face said and through? I didn't even know Timmy smoked yeah.
Terrance Sterner:Mom was like what, he never smoked.
Sandy Sterner:And somebody threw this pack. Somebody that murdered him threw this pack down when he walked in the door.
Wendy Lyons:Hey, you know there's more to this story, so go download the next episode, like the true crime fan that you are.
David Lyons:So go download the next episode, like the true crime fan that you are. Our Android podcast platform, as well as at murderpolicepodcastcom, where you will find show notes, transcripts, information about our presenters and a link to the official Murder Police Podcast merch store where you can purchase a huge variety of Murder Police Podcast swag. We are also on Facebook, instagram and YouTube, which is closed caption for those that are hearing impaired. Just search for the Murder Police Podcast and you will find us. If you have enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe for more and give us five stars and a written review. On Apple Podcasts or wherever you download your podcasts. Make sure you set your player to automatically download new episodes so you get the new ones as soon as they drop, and please tell your friends.
Sandy Sterner:Lock it down.
David Lyons:Judy.
