The Murder Police Podcast
The Murder Police Podcast
Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire! Part 1 of 4
Forget everything you've seen in crime dramas about slamming tables and bright lights. Former detective Eddie Pearson reveals the subtle science behind real interrogation techniques in this eye-opening conversation about body language and statement analysis.
The forehead serves as the "billboard of body language," where trained investigators can read microexpressions that betray our inner thoughts. Pearson explains why watching for changes in someone's baseline behavior matters more than looking for specific "deception indicators." Context is everything—the same physical expression can represent either profound joy or devastating grief depending on the situation.
Fascinatingly, Pearson reveals the cognitive load created by lying. The brain must perform six distinct mental operations to tell and maintain a lie, triggering a cascade of stress hormones that manifest physically. This explains why investigators watch for shifts in breathing patterns, hand gestures, and body posture that signal this internal struggle.
Did you know women typically possess twice as many emotional receptors in their brains as men? This biological difference explains why women often excel at detecting emotional nuances and deception. Pearson shares how this gender distinction plays out in real-world interrogations and how both men and women can develop stronger observation skills.
The most powerful moments in an interrogation often come when suspects adopt what Pearson calls the "ears over heart" posture—leaning forward with their body language signaling surrender. This physical shift frequently precedes confession, highlighting how our bodies often reveal truth before our words catch up.
Want to sharpen your own ability to read nonverbal cues? Pearson offers a simple exercise: watch your favorite TV show with the sound off for 15 minutes, then check your accuracy. This practical technique helps develop the same observational skills that make effective investigators.
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Most confessions come in a one-word confession. Personally, myself and David may have and he's probably done a lot more interviews than I have, and this may have happened to him, but it's never happened to me. I've never walked in and said Hi, I'm Detective Pearson, okay, you caught me, I did it, I did it. I've never had anybody say that.
Wendy Lyons:Liar, liar pants on fire. Body language and statement analysis with Eddie Pearson, part 1 of 4. Warning the podcast you're about to listen to may contain graphic descriptions of violent assaults, murder and adult language. Listener discretion is advised. Welcome to the Murder Police Podcast. Today we have with us a return guest, mr Eddie Pearson, who came and spoke to us prior about what it takes to do polygraphs. He's a polygraph examiner. He came in, taught us how to lie, taught us how to read David's lies, and we have him back today. So, eddie, thank you for being back.
Eddie Pearson:Thank you, I appreciate it.
Wendy Lyons:David, you're really busted because now I have my second lesson in what it takes to read a line.
David Lyons:Yeah, good luck with that. Yeah, because he'll probably talk about things like paying attention. That's what it will get you. But glad to have you back because the first episodes on polygraph operation were really popular with the audience and and you know I travel a lot and I had police officers and investigators comment when they watched it and said they didn't know what they knew till they were done. And I sat in a room with you and the same thing I think I told you before when I was in homicide. I sent people to the box and I had an idea what goes on, but it's much more complex and whatnot in there too. So today you're going to talk about something that's related to that that I got to assume goes on when you're doing the polygraph too, maybe. So what's the topic today?
Eddie Pearson:Uh, we're going to talk a little bit about body language, how we use it. We'll talk about some of the myths uh, what it will do and what it will not do, and we'll also talk a little bit about statement analysis, about how people answer questions and how you can use that to sometimes detect deception, stress and different issues that someone might have. Even though they're still telling you the truth, there might be an issue about what they're telling you, and so a lot of body language and statement analysis is used to get to the bottom of those issues, and we use that during the polygraph. So when I'm conducting a polygraph exam, my normal interview is about an hour and a half before we even talk about the polygraph. What I generally do is someone will come in and we'll sit down and we'll talk about the allegations, the reason that they're there, we'll talk about their background, their history, their family, their education. We'll go through a whole lot of stuff, and the reason I do that is because I need to develop some questions, some comparison questions, to ask them during the actual polygraph test. It also allows me to practice what a lot of people call tactical empathy, because in order to get someone to tell you something, there has to be some degree of rapport between you and that person, because if people will generally tell you more information, if they like you or if they think you and this other person have something in common, if you upset them, you make them mad, you do something intentionally to get some kind of reaction out of them, a lot of times they'll just shut down and I'm not telling you anything, and people will do that.
Eddie Pearson:So what I try to do is I try to relate to everybody that I talk to or talk with, and normally building rapport with somebody is pretty easy because even if you're from two totally separate portions of the world, we're all human. We all have feelings, we all have hearts, brains, lungs, blood. I mean you can relate to people pretty much any way that you know. Most people are all human, so you know you can start there and move forward. But I have found that if you can determine what someone's emotional drivers are and you start talking about their emotional drivers the family, people who have children they love to talk about their children, their careers, their education. People love to talk about themselves, most people. And so when you can kind of and I'm not saying agree with what they've been accused of doing, but kind of understand the position that they're in.
Eddie Pearson:A lot of times it takes you a long way and you can start analyzing their body language and you can analyze the statement analysis by how they answer a question. Most people will rehearse what they want to say if they're going to lie to you, but they don't rehearse how to say it, and that's where statement analysis comes in on how they say this stuff, and we'll talk a little bit about that. But in the body language there's a couple of things that I teach a lot of classes on body language to law enforcement and corrections officers and things of this nature, and I always start by saying there's a couple of rules that you absolutely have to follow in order to make body language an effective tool and body language a polygraph statement analysis. Those are just tools that investigators can use just to get information from someone, whether it's truthful information or deceptive information. And sometimes I want people to lie to me so I can lock them into that story because I'll say I'll ask someone. Okay, just start from where you think it's most important and tell me how we got here. Now, the reason I do it that way is because I don't want to give them a timeline on where to start, because it may be important to me where they start their story. At A lot of times, people that are honest will start at the beginning and, chronologically tell you the entire story.
Eddie Pearson:Sometimes people that are guilty will start right after the incident occurred and then they'll start telling you the entire story. Sometimes people that are guilty will start right after the incident occurred and then they'll start telling you the story. So I always say start from where you think it's most important and tell me how we got to this point, because I want to see where they started from. And so then I just listen to their story and as I'm doing this, I'm going to ask let me back up just a little bit. I'll let them tell me the entire story and I don't interrupt them. Tell me everything from beginning to end, because I want to lock them into that story.
Eddie Pearson:And then I'll go back once they're finished and I'll start asking them questions about that story. And the easiest way to find out if someone's lying to you is have them tell you the story backwards, because people don't rehearse lies backwards, they rehearse them forwards. So when they start telling the lie backwards. Most honest people will add information to the story because they remember it as they're going backwards, but if they really got to think about what they said five minutes ago, then you might have some issues, and I always ask everyone two questions at some point during the interview. What's the most serious thing you think you've ever done wrong while you were on school property? And I'm going to watch that body language. Most people have never been asked that question.
David Lyons:That was yeah. I'm like that came out of nowhere. I think it's school.
Wendy Lyons:What did I do in high school that might have been wrong. I chewed gum and ran in the hall.
Eddie Pearson:Maybe we should beep that out of the show no-transcript because when I asked that question you looked up and to your right, which means you're accessing a portion of your brain that has to do with long-term memory A few years ago, since I had to think about that.
Eddie Pearson:And most people have to think about that, and so I want to see what that body language is, what that looks like, because that's probably going to be a truthful answer. Well, when I was in the fifth grade, I skipped school or I cheated on a test or I dragged race in the parking lot or whatever it is. They'll think about that, and so I'll just kind of keep note of that body language. What did that body language look like when they told me something truthful? So then we'll continue talking about their kids or their education or whatever we need to talk about. Then at some point I'll ask them have you ever heard of a song called the Star Spangled Banner? I'm like yeah, I'm like, yeah, I'm like, what's the?
David Lyons:sixth word of the Star.
Eddie Pearson:Spangled Banner and I have to think about that. I'm thinking now yeah, and when you thought about it, you looked up and, to your right, and most people will start counting on their fingers.
David Lyons:My fingers were moving the answers.
Wendy Lyons:I think, David, we just ought to close our eyes and look at Eddie at all. I'm sitting here, Eddie, and I'm not trying to interrupt you, but I have to say your poor wife.
Eddie Pearson:I just would not want to be married to you Let me tell you who do you think is better at detecting body language, men or women?
Wendy Lyons:Women, I think we're going to catch you on a lie.
Eddie Pearson:Why? Why are women better than men? And it's true, women are better. Why are women better at detecting body?
Wendy Lyons:language, I think, because we ask lots of questions and we're going to go back to question 182 that we asked three years ago 73 times in a row.
Eddie Pearson:And I know the answer and you don't. They're very detailed, but women generally most women have 14 to 16 emotional receptors in the brain. Men only have about six or eight.
Wendy Lyons:You all are so lacking.
David Lyons:If we're doing good, I think that deteriorates as we get older.
Wendy Lyons:So why is that? Are women just honed into things more?
Eddie Pearson:Yes, yes, because women are generally most women can detect emotions better and quicker than men. Because when a baby cries, a baby will cry basically for four reasons and a woman can generally tell you oh, the baby's hungry, or the baby needs to be changed, or there's a chemical in the brain called oxytocin and it's known as the cuddle hormone. So when a baby's upset or cries and that hormone is released into the brain, a woman can probably somebody needs to pick the baby up, or somebody needs to pick the baby up, or somebody needs to feed the baby, or somebody needs to change the baby. Whatever Most men are like, why is the baby crying now?
David Lyons:And then they go to Walmart.
Eddie Pearson:Yeah, yeah, exactly so my grandmother had 12 children and my grandmother could tell you why the baby was crying just by listening to the baby. My grandfather would be like, why is the baby crying again? We just fed it, I mean. So women are generally can pick up on emotions when it comes to body language a lot quicker, simply because that's kind of the way the brain works. So but so yeah, and you mentioned my wife that she's very, she's very, very good at body language and she studied a lot and she uses, uses a lot in her business and what she does. And but you know, women are generally they pick up on it. They go to a party. The woman said like, well, she's upset with him and they can start picking things out generally before men can.
David Lyons:So you know that's. It's a new thing, right, I mean, which I was excited to sit down with you and I think too you're making, you're making some really neat educational, uh, statements that that fight the myths that are out there. You know, I remember years ago that I had somebody ask me when you're in the interview room, was it just like on tv, do you go in slamming things and and stuff?
David Lyons:and I'm like absolutely not and matter of fact, wendy, you know she watches all those crime shows and I'll walk through the kitchen and I'll watch a detective really go hard on somebody. And I've always commented I'm like I hope they're almost done, because if you go there you are like striking matches on a bridge as you walk.
David Lyons:You do that at the very end of the interview, if you even have to, then if I don't want another interview and we think we're at a brick wall. But I do see people that believe, because of movies and tv, that that's what you do, and it's the exact opposite is that we've got to build.
Wendy Lyons:I think it's just like in communication with anybody if you want something, you don't start off screaming at somebody. I mean you're kind of going to plead with them and, like you said, side with them or or say you know, maybe I understand why you're feeling this way and I'd feel that way too, but can you tell me why you did xyz? What were you thinking?
David Lyons:and the lie thing is important. I just saw on joe kendra's instagram where he had a small clip where he says something like I always love a good lie, and on that I put, I posted and said show me your nose, pinocchio, because that's it. And you're the same way as that. When I was in the box and I'm like when that started, like you, I didn't interrupt and the whole time I'm like, well, if we're not going to go for the truth, let's really BS, really bad, and I guess the whole thing, too, is to fall into it with them. Again, not interrupting is important and I see people that have never done interviews start interrupting because of their curiosity.
Eddie Pearson:There's a technique, and we'll get into it a little bit here when we talk about statement analysis, but just to kind of touch on it, it's called SUE, s-u-e it's strategic use of evidence. It's like when you're interviewing somebody and a lot of times I see detectives do this and I've done Before I say this I've made every mistake. You can make Amen me too In mistake. You can make Amen me too. In an interview. I've done things I'm like man, I should have. As soon as it came out of my mouth I'm like, oh, I should have never said that. And so I've messed up interviews so bad that sometimes you can't go back and fix them.
Eddie Pearson:But there's a thing called the suit strategic use of evidence and what I do is I sit down and I look at all my evidence and I rank it from one to 10, one being the most valuable piece of evidence to 10 being the least valuable and then I'll start presenting that evidence to the individual during the interview and have them try to explain to me about the evidence. As long as you do that in a chronological kind of order, it helps you with your interview. But if you go to someone and you say listen, I want to know where the gun was at, that you used to shoot this guy. Well, you just gave him the information about the gun, because he may not know he was shot with a gun. So you got to be very, very careful when you're doing these interviews.
Eddie Pearson:And I tell our detectives a lot of times less is more a lot of times, and like less is more a lot of times. You know, and like you were saying a lot of times, detectives, they have an agenda, and I've done the same thing. They have an agenda, they talk, they talk, they talk, they talk and they don't allow the suspect or the individual that they're interviewing to say a whole lot. And I'm like you know, sometimes silence is golden, as they say. And you know when you use a lot of elicitation techniques, you know that's when elicitation is when you can conduct an interview without asking anybody questions. You just make a statement and then you got to stop talking and allow them to fill in the blank.
David Lyons:Sometimes people don't have that ability. I think ego comes in too.
David Lyons:I've always said that one of the problems in the industry because maybe a movie and TVs is people think that if you wind up in a position like yours highly specialized, highly trained, a lot of responsibility they start bleeding into what what they've been raised to believe is how it works and then throw ego on top of that. Oh yeah, sure, if I go in that, I think the ego is when I go in that room you ain't lying to me and then I'm gonna. I'm gonna dominate you through this. I think that's what I saw too, and again on the TV shows. I'll cringe. I'll cringe every now and then.
Eddie Pearson:And I'll tell our detectives. I said, you know, if we come in and you're, and I always have the detectives watch me do an interview, because sometimes I'll miss stuff. I'm writing something down or I'm trying to take a note, or I'm four questions in front of this guy and sometimes I'll just miss it. And I always ask these detectives, watch me do the interview. And then I try not to take a break and I'll, and I'll talk about why. That's not important, but sometimes there's there's there's things that there's just so much information coming at you at one time body language, the statement analysis, how they're answering, where they're looking, you know, sometimes you can see the heartbeat in their neck boom, boom, boom. I mean you can see. And so you're taking all this information in. And now you've got to remember these 90 questions that I've wrote down before my interview. And what I do is I'll say OK, I'm going to ask him did you steal the watch? And they're going to say no. Well, if they say no, my next question is this or if they say yes, then this is my next question and I try to predict what they're going to tell me. So before I do an interview, I might have four pages worth of questions before I even sit down and talk to this person. And so I kind of so I got to try to remember a lot of those questions and I kind of plan, and it works good for me, because that way I'm not searching for a question. So if I say, did you steal the watch from that retail store? No, okay, my next question is well then, why would someone accuse you of stealing the watch if you didn't do it Right? And then I try to predict that answer. Well, because they're being vindictive towards me. Okay, this is my next question if you say that, and that has a lot to do with the statement analysis.
Eddie Pearson:But back to the body language just a little bit. There's two rules. One is body language is there are no absolutes. There's nothing that says just because I scratched my nose, I'm lying. Okay, that's a myth there's. You ask somebody a question about stealing a watch and they scratched their nose, the nose might itch, Okay.
Eddie Pearson:The second thing is context. Context is the most important thing there is. When I teach a class, I show two photographs, a lady and a man, two separate photographs, and they're both sitting there and they both have their forehead on their hands and they're both appearing to cry. I said tell me what you see. They said, well, it's two people and they look like they're crying.
Eddie Pearson:I'm like, well, no, the lady on the left was just informed she hit a $400 million lottery. She's the winner. That's her body language. She was so happy, she was overwhelmed, she was crying. The other guy, whose body language was almost the same, was just told that his daughter was killed in a car accident on her way home from school. So you're looking at that body language and it's almost identical, but it's two totally different contexts. So a lot of times people come to me and they say, hey, I was asking my spouse a question last night and they did this. I'm like I don't answer those questions because I don't know the context of the conversation. Good point. So you've got to know the context.
Wendy Lyons:And how they respond to things such as the winning the lottery or something dramatic, exactly.
Eddie Pearson:So you've got to know that context, what that context is, and it's not absolute. Okay, earlier I said rapport. You have to build rapport with people to some extent. You know, I'm not saying you got to take them to dinner and that kind of stuff, but there has to be a mutual respect between you and another person and I always explain that to them. I said you know I'm here to help you get through this process. You're in control. You're in 100% control. If you decide not to talk to me, get up and walk out and leave. It's up to you. If you don't want me to help you, then I won't help you. Just tell me I'll start going into this stuff. I try to lay everything out. I try to be as transparent as possible. When we talk about body language In order to tell a lie, there are six things that have to occur mentally in the brain.
Eddie Pearson:The first thing is that you have to mentally decide you're not going to tell the truth or omit information. Then you have to think about what information you're going to omit or lie about. Then you have to construct the lie. Then you have to tell the lie. Then you have to watch my body. Then you have to tell the lie, then you have to watch my body language to see if I believe the lie, and then you have to remember the lie. So for every lie you tell, those six things have to occur.
Eddie Pearson:When that occurs, your brain releases neuroepinephrine, epinephrine, adrenaline, cortisol and dopamine into your bloodstream. Cortisol is the stress hormone. So when that cognitive load in your brain starts to increase and you've got to remember all these lies that you're telling, that's when that body language kicks in, because the body has to have some kind of release from all that stress. So you'll see people chewing on their fingers, digging in their ears, picking you know stuff out of their clothes, and you take no to that when you start asking them questions. So generally what I do is I kind of start from the top of the body when I'm teaching and I work my way down the forehead. The forehead is what's known as the billboard of body language. That's the largest part of your body that you're going to be able to watch body language. So when your eyebrows go up, you'll see those furrows in the top of your forehead. When the eyebrows go up, that's either they're looking for improvement, some kind of encouragement. You know what I'm saying.
Wendy Lyons:Just like I did. You know what I'm saying he got you.
Eddie Pearson:He got you Because she did the same thing. Yeah, exactly.
Wendy Lyons:She did exactly what I did. Mine's usually like this and people say why do you got that scar down? Your did you get cut? No, I'm just mad all the time.
Eddie Pearson:And it stays there. Now that's anger or confusion or disagreement. So when you're interviewing somebody and you're talking to them, you see those eyebrows go down. You got to figure out what's causing that.
Wendy Lyons:Yeah, what you said that might've triggered that down.
Eddie Pearson:Also you're talking about that line right there in the center between your eyebrows, the emotion of grief looks like an upside down horseshoe. I can't do it because I'm not that good of an actor, but when you see that upside-down horseshoe right between those eyebrows, it's a sign of grief. And you'll also see dimpling in the chin, see the chin dimples. It's a sign of grief. So when you're talking with somebody, that's one of the first things that you look at. The first things I look at is their forehead when I'm asking them questions, and a lot of times you say, well, start from. You know, let's say you got up at five o'clock this morning, okay, and I want to lock you into five o'clock. I'll say okay, wendy, tell me what you did from five o'clock until noon and start at five o'clock. I'm going to lock you in. You say okay, first. As soon as you start, your eyebrows are probably going to go up right, because you're trying to encourage me to listen to what you're saying. So the eyes, the eyes are very important. There's a thing called NLP Neuro Linguistic Programming that was developed back in the early 70s and it came out and says okay, if you look up to the left, it means this If you look to the right, it means that If you look down to the left, it means this If you look to the right, it means that If you look down to the left, down to the right, everywhere you look, it means something different.
Eddie Pearson:I don't know that I really believe all of that, but I do use it from time to time. When I ask you. You guys are perfect examples. When I asked both of you that question about what's the most serious thing you ever did wrong on school property, you both looked up and to your right. So anytime I ask you something and you're going to give me a truthful answer, I'm probably going to see that type of body language. When I see something totally different, that's what I cue in on and there's a reason that it changed.
Eddie Pearson:Now. It may not be because you're lying. It may be because, well, there's something that traumatic happened to me in high school and when you mentioned that, I just thought about it and I was the victim of a crime or whatever, and they'll look down because it's shameful or they're embarrassed about it. So I don't know why they do it and I'm not concerned about why they're doing it. I just want to know what caused them to do that reaction. It could be because, like I said, it's a traumatic event.
Eddie Pearson:A lot of times you'll see it in domestic violence. If a woman is a victim of domestic violence and you'll start talking about domestic violence, you'll see that body language change. Well, why did it change? It's not because she's lying, it's because she was a victim. So we're bringing back those negative memories that we talk about, which cause that body reaction, that body language, to change. And you're looking for that change. That's what you're looking for the change. So when you see the change, it doesn't necessarily mean they're being deceptive, but there's a reason for the change. So then I start digging in to try to find out what that reason is. And usually you'll find out pretty quick once you notice that body language. Most and usually you'll find out pretty quick once you notice that body language Most women are chest breathers.
Eddie Pearson:They breathe with their chest. Their chest moves in and out as they relax. Most men are belly breathers. Their belly will move in and out as they start to relax and they sit there and they talk to you. When that cortisone kicks in, you'll see that change. You'll see men go. Well, I'll tell you this, you know, and you'll see that big chest breathing. So it is shift.
Eddie Pearson:Sometimes it's hard to like the jacket she's wearing. I can't, I wouldn't be able to detect that unless she moves right. So when people come in and do an interview, if they're wearing a jacket or a loose shirt or something, the only way you can detect that is to see that movement, physical movement of their body. So that's another thing you can look at. And it's caused by stress. What causes the stress? Well, that's what we need to dig into People's hands. You watch their hands, they'll tell you a story. What I do is, when someone first comes in, I try to determine what their dominant side of their body is, and the way I do that is I give them a consent form to take a polygraph test and I get them an ink pen and I take note on which hand they used to sign their name to the consent form. That's their dominant side. Most people are right-handed, so what I try to do is I try to sit on the right side of their body. Now, a lot of times I can't do that because of the way our rooms are set up, but the reason that's important is because it's called global hemispheric tendency.
Eddie Pearson:People normally on positive things in their life, they will gesture with their dominant hand. I have a friend of mine who has six kids. I'll ask him about his kids and he'll use his right hand finger to talk about the oldest child, the youngest child, and he'll use his right hand when he talks about his kids. When people talk about negative things, they generally talk they switch the negative side of their body, which in this case would be his left side. So a lot of times you'll see people telling you a story and when they gesture about positive things, especially when they talk about their kids, they'll move the right side of their body more than the left side of their body and they'll move it from the waist up positive gestures. The waist down is negative gestures.
Eddie Pearson:You go to a football game. If you turn the TV on with no sound and just look at the crowd, you can probably tell who's winning the game just on the people's body language. Because if their team scores a touchdown, what's? Everybody do Hands go up, everybody's just screaming, everybody's high-fiving. But if they fumble the ball on the five-yard line, then what happens? Everybody's body language goes down negative. I mean I could do better than that. So a lot of times you can watch a football game and just turn the TV on with no sound and tell who's winning the game just by looking at the crowd. I tell everybody the easiest way to learn body language is to watch your favorite sitcom for 15 minutes with no sound, try to figure out what they're doing and then, after it comes back from the commercial, turn the sound back on and see how close you are. That's the easiest way to do it and you'd be surprised. Most people can get pretty close to what actually is going on, just based on people's body language. So you look at people's hands A lot of times, the conditions of their hands.
Eddie Pearson:If a guy comes in and says I'm an auto mechanic and his hands look like mine, there's no way he's an auto mechanic. Or if he says I'm a neurosurgeon and his hand looks like an auto mechanic, now you've got to be careful because he may be a neurosurgeon that likes to restore cars. So you've got to click. Well, if that's the case, you've got to ask yourself why does his hands look like an auto mechanic, if he says he's a neurosurgeon? So you start asking him questions what kind of hobbies do you like? What do you like to do when you're not operating on people? Questions what kind of hobbies do you like? What do you like to do when you're not operating on people? Oh, I like to restore cars. Oh, so you like to? What kind of cars you'd like to restore? Well, that just explained to me why his hands look the way they do. So then we can just move on.
David Lyons:Or if they go into the surgery room with an angle grinder and a dent puller, then we'd have a small problem. That's where my mind goes, yeah wrong wrong, wrong job.
Eddie Pearson:So. So a lot of that you can use um to get information from from people. Okay, um lips. A lot of times you'll see people chew on their lips, bite their lips, purse their lips, push air, called air. Push, push air out when they start to get tired. Push air out when they start to get tired. A thing I called ears over heart. If you're talking to someone and you can get them to lean forward and place their ears over top of their heart, you're probably going to get them to confess to something.
David Lyons:Ah yeah, why To that degree? I didn't understand it. But I do remember in some of the training I had an impractical experience that there's a thing that happens, that we always watch for that if that body language goes forward like that and that's neat. I'd never heard it described that way. But if you had that happen then you made sure you didn't interrupt anything and you made sure.
Wendy Lyons:So why is that, Eddie?
Eddie Pearson:Because people will start to get smaller. Okay, they'll start to lean forward. You'll see them bring their arms in closer to their body and they'll lean forward. The ears will go over their heart. So they're starting to that cognitive load is really starting to increase and they need some kind of relief. So when you start seeing those defeated gestures, the worst thing you can do is interrupt them. Amen. Most confessions come in a one-word confession. Personally, myself and David may have and he's probably done a lot more interviews than I have and this may have happened to him, but it's never happened to me. I've never walked in and said, hi, I'm Detective Pearson, okay, you caught me, I to me. I've never walked in and said, hi, I'm Detective Pearson, okay, you caught me, I did it, I did it. I've never had anybody say that.
David Lyons:The closest can I share, Of course.
Eddie Pearson:And it blew my mind the closest I had to.
David Lyons:That is, we had a Hispanic man found beat to death by the Hope Center on Loudoun. We ended up identifying that guy and I remember we had an interpreter and this is back before we had somebody on staff, but we had a guy that was helping and I remember before we went in the room I told him I said listen, we're going to be in there a long time, especially with us interpreting back and forth, and I told him what we were going to do and everything.
David Lyons:And I go in and I sit down and I have him line by line, go through Miranda and whatnot with the guy. And I swear to God, the guy said something in Spanish and the interpreter looked over and he goes. He said I said what he said, he goes. Uh, I fucked him and he didn't mean it, like that's foul language, but I was I about fell out of the chair, but the guy did the sign on the cross before he did it, right.
David Lyons:And he was in that body language was there in everything, but it was so back to that point. I've had it happen one time. Other than that it's a grueling, yeah, it's, it's, oh, it's, yeah, I tell you when I come out of an interview and an interview and interrogation.
Eddie Pearson:obviously it'll be different, but when I come out an interview and interrogation, I'm I'm done, I'm spent. I mean, yes, I've been in there four and five hours because when I start mine I don't't take a break, because if I take a break that cognitive load comes back down and I don't want that to occur, because then you've got to build it back up Now. I've got to build it back up. Now I've got to work twice as hard to get it to go back up.
Eddie Pearson:So I try not to take a break and I tell my detectives I said you know, and I tell him at the beginning I said you're a hundred. Like I said before, you're a hundred percent in charge. If you did this, get a good lawyer, get up and walk out. Don't talk to me. I said. But if you want to talk about this, we can fix this, we can move forward. I'm willing to sit here and help you as much as I can, that's a good, fair statement.
Eddie Pearson:And I'll tell everybody right from the get-go. And the reason I do that is one is because they know that they're there to fix the issue, whatever that issue might be. The second reason is is that they can't go into court and says I wasn't allowed to leave.
David Lyons:That's a big.
Eddie Pearson:That's he with interrogation, yeah, and I say that right from the get-go I was like no. And even during the interrogation, a lot of times I'll say listen, when you go home this afternoon I want you to be able to look in that mirror and know that you told 100% of the truth. And I've had to go to court and the judge is like well, no, he told him he could leave at any point. And even during the conversation he told him when you go home tonight, I want you. So how is he under duress or coercion? He was told he could leave and I do that on 99% of all my interviews, my interrogations, and I explained to them. I say you know, at this point in my career, I'm a civilian. I can't charge you with anything. So whatever you told the detective, that's between you and him. I have nothing to do with that. I'm here to help you. So if you meant to kill six people in Texas, I don't care, I can't do anything about it. I'm a civilian just like you. That's a whole different perspective.
David Lyons:It's a completely different perspective.
Eddie Pearson:I never really put that in thought that way, but yeah and the way they look at it is like I'm not an authority figure. I am just like you. I'm a civilian. I get paid eight to five, Monday through Friday. Just like you work in construction. Or you're an auto mechanical, I'm just like you. I get paid X number of dollars an hour. And so today, when you go home, tonight, when you're sitting there eating dinner with your family, I want you to make sure that you and I have had an honest conversation, and that's kind of the way I approach it. And so I'll go in and I'll say something. Like you know, I want to sit down and speak with you about this, you know, and what I want to achieve is that you and I have a positive conversation at the end when we're done. It's a positive conversation. Do you think that's fair?
Wendy Lyons:Hey, you know there's more to this story, so go download the next episode, like the true crime fan that you are.
David Lyons:The Murder Police Podcast is hosted by Wendy and David Lyons and was created to honor the lives of crime victims, so their names are never forgotten. It is produced, recorded and edited by David Lyons. The Murder Police Podcast can be found on your favorite Apple or Android podcast platform, as well as at murderpolicepodcastcom, where you will find show notes, transcripts, information about our presenters and a link to the official Murder Police Podcast merch store where you can purchase a huge variety of Murder Police Podcast swag. We are also on Facebook, instagram and YouTube, which is closed caption for those that are hearing impaired. Just search for the Murder Police Podcast and you will find us. If you have enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe for more and give us five stars and a written review. On Apple Podcasts or wherever you download your podcasts, make sure you set your player to automatically download new episodes so you get the new ones as soon as they drop, and please tell your friends Lock it down.
David Lyons:Judy.
