The Murder of Haley McHone Part 1

The 1999 murder of 13 year old Haley McHone in Lexington Kentucky by rail-riding serial killer Tommy Lynn Sells.  Part 1 details the initial efforts of the investigation, told by lead Homicide Detective Chris Schoonover.

Show notes can be found HERE. 

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Transcript

Speaker 1 0:00

If you have been looking for a realistic true crime experience , you just found it . Get ready for true crime with real detectives . On the Murder Police podcast .

Speaker 2 0:10

So we got called because it was just early in the evening , late afternoon , 4.35 . We got a call that a body was found by a young boy walking his dog and the dog led the young boy over to a smell . The young man and the dog went back to his father and the father came back and noticed the smell so he contacted the police . And that is when we responded and discovered that it was Haley McCone , and that was 10 days later .

Speaker 3 0:41

Warning the podcast you're about to listen to may contain graphic descriptions of violent assaults , murder and adult language . Listener discretion is advised . Welcome to the Murder Police Podcast , the Murder of Haley McCone , part 1 of 3 , with your hosts Wendy and David Lyons , chris Schoonover and Ray the DA Larson . Hey , chris , thank you for joining us . How are you today ?

Speaker 2 1:23

I'm doing well . Thank you for having me .

Speaker 3 1:25

And Ray .

Speaker 4 1:27

I'm just tap dancing .

Speaker 3 1:28

And David , how are you doing over there ?

Speaker 1 1:30

Doing fantastic . I'm excited to go through this one . This was an amazing case to be a part of .

Speaker 3 1:35

Chris , why don't you start with telling us a little bit about yourself ?

Speaker 2 1:38

Okay , Since I'm really old , I'll start with my military career , so it doesn't take me all the way back to infant stage with Moses . I was in the United States Army and while I was in there in the United States Army I was a criminal investigator , a special agent with the Criminal Investigative Division . We investigated felonies , all the felonies that were associated with the military and the US government . We also had investigations off the military base if they had a nexus to the government . Then I left the military and got hired by the Bureau of Prisons where I was assigned to the special investigative section where we investigated inmates that would have a plot to escape . We would investigate any type of scams that the inmates came up with with family members . We'd listen to their phone calls , look into their bank accounts and we also , if we had rumor that family members were bringing in narcotics into the facility , we'd call K-9 and do those type of investigations .

Speaker 2 2:38

While I was with the Bureau of Prisons I applied with the Lexington Police Department , got hired in 1996 . I applied with the Lexington Police Department , got hired in 1996 . Three weeks after my probationary period I got moved up to homicide and was assigned to David Lyons and that's how we met .

Speaker 3 2:53

Wow , a lot of experience there . I don't think that we're going to get much by you . Well , chris , what is this ?

Speaker 2 3:02

case about this Haley McCone case . This case is a unique case because it's mid-America . Typical 13-year-old rebellious teenager and , of course , middle-class parents reported their child missing and the Lexington Police Department used every resource in trying to locate her . We did posters , we did door knocks , neighborhood canvases , met people in the park at the same time . We thought she went missing . We used all our resources and got nowhere . It was quite an experience to do this investigation with other detectives and use all the resources we could to find her .

Speaker 3 3:39

Wow , so has this case been the subject of any other true crime reporting ?

Speaker 2 3:45

Yes , there's been several major networks that have done several stories on the suspect and there's been a couple of books that have been written about the suspect .

Speaker 3 3:54

Okay , well , where and when did this homicide occur ?

Speaker 2 4:00

This homicide occurred in Lexington , kentucky , in Fayette County . It was off . If anybody knows where the University of Kentucky is located of course the basketball mecca of the world , but it's just several blocks off of the main campus . The main thoroughfare that goes through there is called Nicholasville Road . Her family lived a couple of blocks off of Elizabeth Park . Their house backed up to the park . She was reported missing by a family member from Floral Park and then Elizabeth Park is right behind their house , so that's where it occurred .

Speaker 3 4:36

Okay , so can you tell us about Haley ? I know she's 13 . What more can you tell us about her ? Sure , I know , we know she's 13 . What more can you ?

Speaker 2 4:43

tell us about her . Sure , If you can think of a typical 13-year-old , smoking , rebellious teenager that wants to do everything opposite that her parents want her to do , that's Haley . She was a frequent runaway , and what I mean by runaway is her family was middle class but they , like any other family , had hidden secrets . They had issues with other relatives that nobody knew , and to escape that , Haley would get on her bike , which became very important in the case . Later she would get on her bike and she would ride across town or to a friend's house and stay overnight Across town I'm talking a grandparent and she would stay overnight and not tell her parents . So they would report her missing because of course , there's truancy laws and if she didn't show up to school the next day her parents would be in trouble . So they would report her missing .

Speaker 3 5:34

So this wasn't really untypical that she was missing yet again .

Speaker 2 5:38

No , they did what any other parent would do . They waited several hours and they reported her missing . And days went by and that's when all of us , including David we started using our resources posters . We even use family members to help us hang posters on telephone poles and storefronts . We do door knocks neighborhood canvases is what we call them . And we kind of discovered that we weren't doing neighborhood canvases correctly until David came up with a method that , since it was a college campus , we forgot that when we talk to somebody at the front door they're not the only people living in that house . So we started revamping the forms and say how many people live in this home ? How many cars are parked here normally , what are the hours that people are working or coming back and forth to school ? Normally we would knock on the door and say did you hear anything unusual ? Have you seen anything unusual ? Any cars look out of place . But this changed our whole approach on doing neighborhood canvases to try to locate Haley .

Speaker 3 6:40

Yeah , he's pretty good about changing things to fit his agenda usually and they're good for the most part .

Speaker 2 6:46

Sure , he got promoted through the ranks . He knows what he's doing .

Speaker 3 6:50

Well , so I guess take us back to the beginning . Did you just get a call ? Is it just typical that your phone rings and somebody says , hey , there's a missing child ? What were you doing and how did you first find out about this ?

Speaker 2 7:03

In the homicide unit in Lexington . I'll give you a little background about the way things are done . Usually a detective is on call At that time it was for seven days during the week and that doesn't mean the person or the detective on call actually is going to be the lead in that investigation . They get the original call , they make an assessment of the call , how many people are needed , and at that time we had a rule All the homicide detectives are going to respond . So we got called because it was just early in the evening , late afternoon , 435 . We got a call that a body was found by a young boy walking his dog and the dog led the young boy over to a smell . The young man and the dog went back to his father and the father came back and noticed the smell . So he contacted the police and that is when we responded and discovered that it was Haley McCone , and that was 10 days later after she was reported missing .

Speaker 3 8:00

So prior to this , you're just thinking you're looking for still a missing child and we're just still looking and she still hasn't come back and nobody's seen her .

Speaker 2 8:08

Right , we don't know if this is Haley .

Speaker 3 8:11

So at still hasn't come back and nobody's seen her . Right , we don't know if this is hayley , so at this point you're just still searching for her .

Speaker 2 8:15

And now a call comes in that hey , there's a body right right , so do you go there ?

Speaker 3 8:19

or did you actually go there , or how did that happen ?

Speaker 2 8:22

right , so the on-call detective is going to be the lead detective for that time .

Speaker 3 8:29

Seven days .

Speaker 2 8:30

Right , Because they are going . A lot of things happen simultaneously . You have to have somebody at the crime scene to guide the forensic services unit in case you need them to collect something . He also , or she also , has to make the decision on who needs to be called the corner Anybody from KSP with the lab , if you would like . For instance , we did use Emily Craig , who's world-renowned in pathology , and she came and helped us collect evidence . So the person needs to decide to call Emily or KSP . Also any of the supervisors that need to be notified , because that's very important , and all the other detectives get assigned a job neighborhood canvas , like I said .

Speaker 4 9:14

Chris , let me ask you a question . You say your body was found 10 days after reported missing and an odor took the dog to that spot . What kind of a condition is a body in after it's been dead and exposed for 10 days ? That's an interesting question .

Speaker 2 9:36

What happens is , depending on the temperature of the surrounding area , a body can go through various stages of decomposition , depending on also the environment . With the animals maggots flies . If you have coyotes , any kind of wild dogs that walk through the woods , they can drag body parts , any kind of evidence , they can drag that away . Now going back to the heat or the temperature , sometimes if it's colder , then the body decomposes slower . So it's very interesting and again , I'll save that for Emily Craig if you ever have her on your show , she will collect those maggots . And what's very interesting is she can freeze those maggots and from what stage those maggots are in growth . She can approximate how long the body has been placed there or laying in that position .

Speaker 1 10:26

Can you talk more about specifically where her body was found and what kind of conditions were there at that site ?

Speaker 2 10:33

Sure . So in Kentucky in the month of May it becomes very hot . Anytime after April you're going to get heat . And it is in a wooded area . At the back of that park there's tall trees , hedges , and there's also a railroad track that runs through that neighborhood . At the rear of that park there is a trail , a walking trail . It's dirt , dead trees laying on both sides of the trail , and when we got to the scene there were dead leaves , a log , and until you moved the leaves you could not see Haley's body at all . So once that was left and moved , then you could see that of course maggots had been involved , the stage of decomposition . But you could tell that there was no shirt and just her shorts were on her .

Speaker 3 11:27

So you get there and you go to this walking trail and you see the body there , and what do you do at that point ? Did a light bulb go off in your head and you think maybe this is her , because I know she lives right there , or were you just thinking this is another victim in 1999 ?

Speaker 2 11:45

Right , regardless of what people think about detectives common sense it really plays into a huge part of what we do . So , yeah , you can't assume anything , because your final goal is to make this a proper scene , to follow all the rules , because you want a conviction in the case at the very end . So you want to follow the rules very carefully . So you're not going to assume it's Haley . But we have a good feeling . I mean common sense . Her house backs up to this park . She's been missing . We haven't had any other reports of missing females since Haley's been missing . And of course , we start going and asking the family give us some particulars about does she have tattoos ? Does she have any broken bones ? Because when that body goes to autopsy they're going to know any kind of scar tissue , any kind of bones that have been broken and rehealed , any kind of dental work , anything like that .

Speaker 3 12:45

That can identify if it's hailed Any distinguished marks on her . Yes , so you got there and there's this female . And then what did you do ?

Speaker 2 12:54

Well , we called the rest of the homicide detectives in and we decided who would do what . And what's great about the homicide unit that Dave and I was in is you knew who had what strengths . Some people were better at writing search warrants and getting ways into a house . Some people were better at reading crime scenes , knowing what evidence needed to be picked up , and some people are just better at interviewing and walking the neighborhood and talking to family members and explaining to , for example , haley's family that we aren't sure who this is yet . But can you help us give us some background ? We aren't sure who this is yet , but can you help us give us some background ? Because , remember , at the beginning of the show I said it was very important that she would ride this bike .

Speaker 3 13:37

There was no bike there . Oh okay , so you coordinate all that , and then what happens ? Next you send her to this pathology .

Speaker 2 13:48

Well , yeah , we went in to talk to her parents and asked her all those questions I mentioned previously . Then the forensic services unit . We have to sit there and make sure we don't , make sure we assist them in any kind of information . We get from the neighborhood , any new information , so they know what they're looking for and we stay at that scene . All the homicide detectives stay at that scene in case there's anything that needs to be done . And we need to go elsewhere and start interviewing people Once the scene is processed and it's time to move that body . Now I'm not talking an hour , two hours . It takes . If you're doing a crime scene right , it takes anywhere from 24 hours and with respect to the deceased person , it takes 24 hours or more to process that crime scene correctly .

Speaker 3 14:36

Wow , so that was a long day , wasn't it ?

Speaker 2 14:38

Yes , we were out there all night actually dealing with some of the media , because the media liked to go on the railroad tracks and find other ways in and the crime scene was taped off . But you have to remember there's always an avenue if they want to get into a scene so we were making sure that was taken care of and we were making sure all witnesses were covered , if there were any why do you protect the scene from the media ?

Speaker 4 15:03

why ? Why do you do that ?

Speaker 2 15:05

Well , I can give you a quick reason and then I'll give you what we would suspect . The right reason is because anybody that comes into that crime scene that doesn't have protective garments on ie booties , jumpsuits , gloves is going to contaminate that crime scene . Gloves is going to contaminate that crime scene and that's a great way for a defense attorney to go ahead and find a leak in your investigation . So we don't want anybody that doesn't belong in that crime scene in that crime scene . The second is it sells news . It gives you those ratings , so they want in there to boost those ratings , and that's not what it's about .

Speaker 4 15:44

Well , I understand , do you have any feel any obligation to protect what's going on , because subsequently you know you're going to be a witness , absolutely , and there's going to have to be a ?

Speaker 2 15:56

trial Absolutely . And a great example is if the forensic service unit is taking photographs and in the background you see shoes or a camera that's laying on a railroad track , defense attorney is going to pick that up and they're going to ask well , who is this detective ? And that's a terrible thing to be on the stand and answer those questions .

Speaker 1 16:15

Let me throw in too that it's important people listening understand . It's just not the media we didn't allow in . But when you're talking about everybody from homicide being there , how many people from homicide went in that scene that day ? Two people .

Speaker 2 16:25

That's it . That's all we allow .

Speaker 1 16:27

So it's not just a thing with the media , it's nobody goes in .

Speaker 2 16:31

That's right . That's correct . And you've experienced something , mr Larson about . You come up and you ask for a briefing , but you don't ever ask to be toured back there because you know the end result .

Speaker 4 16:41

Well , I know Tim Russell , who is a great forensic guy for the police department , would chew me out , and he has .

Speaker 3 16:53

So at this point you're still processing and this person is still there . So when you get it processed and everything's completed and then the deceased is sent to be examined , what happens then ? Do you just wait , Do you ? What happens then ?

Speaker 1 17:16

You might want to talk about . Does somebody from the unit go to the autopsy and why are they there and what's that look like when it happens ?

Speaker 2 17:22

Yes , the autopsy . And why are they there and what's that look like when it happens ? Yes , so , as I said before , the on-call detective and the lead detective usually will go to Frankfurt whenever the body is escorted up there . They will attend the autopsy . They take notes at the autopsy . They also assist forensic services unit if there's a question , because , remember , you're getting information constantly from other detectives , from even forensic services hey , we found a knife or we's a question , because , remember , you're getting information constantly from other detectives , from even forensic services hey , we found a knife or we found a gun , so you want to see if there's any of those type of wounds on the body . So , while you're getting that information , you're also assisting them and letting them know . Now the medical examiner also wants to know a brief background of what happened . You know , where was she found ? What do we know about the case ? So you need to be there to give the medical examiner the background .

Speaker 3 18:10

So the autopsy was performed . At this point you still don't know . It's her or do you suspect it's her ? No , we do not know it's her .

Speaker 2 18:18

That's a long process in itself , so we're still going to investigate like she's a missing person , but we also want to treat it like it's a homicide and it may be her . It's confusing but , yes , that's the way you have to approach the situation .

Speaker 4 18:32

So the medical examiner's job is to do what ?

Speaker 2 18:38

Determine the cause and manner of death . And was that done ?

Speaker 4 18:42

Yes , it was , and do you know what the cause and manner of death of Haley McCone it ?

Speaker 2 18:48

was strangulation , it was murder .

Speaker 4 18:53

You're looking for particular injuries in strangulation , I guess , and were you there at the autopsy ? I was . Did they find those kind of injuries to the throat ?

Speaker 2 19:08

It was consistent . Yes , it was very difficult in her stage of decomposition . The medical examiner did a great job in assisting us in that .

Speaker 1 19:18

Would that be something that you release to the media ? Do the police usually talk about that ?

Speaker 2 19:23

No , they don't . That's a very important part and the reason we don't talk about that is because in the homicide unit , several of us and it probably should be made a regulator or rule , you would say to have people with informants , information , so to make sure that you're getting the honest and right information , even from a witness , if they come forward , you want to be able to know that those witnesses that give you that information is actually true , and the only way to know that is to keep some of the information .

Speaker 2 19:57

you know that only the person that murdered that victim , and you know that that's true the person that murdered that victim , and you know that that's true .

Speaker 3 20:08

Well , when you saw this victim lying there I'm assuming there were did you know ? At that point , were you thinking , well , this is strangulation , or are there any visible knife wounds or gunshot wounds ? Or are you just thinking , well , they're just laying there , there's no visible wounds ? What could have happened ? There has to be foul play if it's under a log right .

Speaker 2 20:25

Right . Based on the way she was positioned , we knew it was probably a homicide . But again , you want to be safe because anything you document , anything you say , will come back later on if it goes to trial . So what we did is we always base it on what the medical examiner says and what the death certificate says from the coroner .

Speaker 3 20:48

So you still you're attending this autopsy and you don't know this is her , but maybe you think it kind of is Sure .

Speaker 2 20:55

Sure we do . And so we go back to the neighborhood , talk to the parents and start getting a list of Haley's friends . Talk to the parents and start getting a list of Haley's friends , and then from the interviews of the friends . We start backtracking what she was doing 10 days Because we don't know . Remember , we don't know when the murder occurred yet . So we have to get at least 10 days of timeline of what Haley McCone has done .

Speaker 3 21:20

What did you find out from the friends ?

Speaker 2 21:24

That they hadn't seen her , that she hadn't been at school . We went through her locker and brought her books back and they had no answers for us . They hadn't seen her .

Speaker 3 21:32

So were you positive at this point ? This was her that you attended the autopsy on .

Speaker 2 21:37

No , no , it takes several . That's one thing I wanted to explain to people . It's not like you see on TV where at a commercial break , you're going to get DNA results on your victim . It takes anywhere from six to nine months to get definite confirmation of who your victim will be .

Speaker 3 21:55

Wow , so you're processing this murder of someone that maybe is her , but you don't know . But then you're also still looking for the missing child .

Speaker 2 22:03

Right .

Speaker 3 22:04

So then what happens ?

Speaker 2 22:05

So we get information from . Well , let me back up . We go to some services that they have in the park hoping that we may see somebody suspicious there , because they're having a ceremony for Haley . They're assuming it's her . Ceremony for Haley , they're assuming it's her , and so we have all the homicide detectives out kind of mingling , watching on the outskirts for anybody suspicious . So we start taking photographs of people we want to interview . We start taking license plate numbers and we start knocking people On college kids doors more , because now we want to start taking DNA just in case later , if she was sexually assaulted or there's DNA on her clothing that she has left on that , we want to have some type of evidence to compare that to . So that's that was our next step . We started asking people if they would even provide a swab of their DNA .

Speaker 3 23:00

Were they open to that ?

Speaker 2 23:01

Somewhere . Yes , it was surprising . Yes , we'd even provide a swab of their DNA . Were they open to that Somewhere ? Yes , it was surprising . Yes , and I think Lexington , the community really wants answers to . If they know a teenager has been harmed , they're going to do whatever they can for the community to determine who did this , who committed this crime , and those that , don't worry , they don't have a problem with providing their DNA .

Speaker 3 23:24

So you go canvassing the area , the dorms , and did anything turn up ?

Speaker 2 23:30

Nothing . We even put out on social media that she was last seen in this area and we made new posters and we added the bike to the posters because we didn't have a bike . So we were trying to look for the bike too , in hopes that it would have evidence on it DNA evidence and so we even put posters up with the bike , hoping that somebody would call Crime Stopper Somebody , some student from school may have information . So we would go to schools , hang the poster up . We still had no responses .

Speaker 3 24:01

Still banging your head against a wall .

Speaker 2 24:03

Yes .

Speaker 3 24:03

So how long did that go on , that you had nothing ?

Speaker 2 24:06

Several months actually , we kept on investigating this case probably half a day , every day . We concentrated on Haley's case alone and remember we're also getting other cases in because this happened in May . And remember we're also getting other cases in because this happened in May . And now several months have gone by and we don't have anything . All the resources we're using with KSP Lab , with the FBI , we're calling a thing called VICAP and that's Violent Index Offenders Program and we're giving them information to see if they have any like murders in any place across the country that they can compare it to .

Speaker 1 24:45

Can you talk more about VICAP and what that's like ? When you talk about giving information , how does that happen and how often does that happen ?

Speaker 2 24:51

Yeah , thank you , dave . I made it sound easy , but it's really a thick book that you have to fill out . It talks about the victim and that's what's called a victimology and they kind of rate what type of victim she would be a high risk , medium risk or a low risk . You give them all the background on her family members , on her friends . You fill out in detail what the crime scene looked like , what her grades were , anything about the victim , and then you provide all details about the crime scene so they can compare that crime scene with others across the country . Now we used to joke and say all information in , nothing coming out , because once you send that book in you don't hear from the FBI unless something similar . So it's a good program , but if they don't have anything similar , you're not going to get any information back .

Speaker 1 25:42

It's probably the best shot at police agencies coordinating with each other on major crime , because that's a big criticism sometimes is that I've always thought that that's probably the best shot you've got at picking up a serial offender .

Speaker 2 25:54

Right , it was before . Then it was more archaic , where you would go to a conference , talk to other detectives , pass each other a card . Hey , do you have this type of crime ? Hey , this is the issues we're seeing , and that with ICAP that saves you all that problem and then you can just go to happy hour at the conventions instead of worrying about networking Instead of worrying about those pesky details , right ?

Speaker 3 26:14

So you submit all this data and you wait , and you wait . So now , how long have you been waiting before ? Well , before you find out it's , affirmatively her , and before you get a break .

Speaker 2 26:27

We find out it's her in November .

Speaker 3 26:29

So much 1999 . Yes Wow .

Speaker 1 26:33

But we're working under the assumption it's her the whole time . It's not like it's us .

Speaker 3 26:36

That's correct .

Speaker 1 26:37

Can you recall , were there any kind of leads , even small ones , coming in at that time or anything that generated it ?

Speaker 2 26:42

Were there any kind of leads , even small ones coming in at that time or anything that generated it . Well , so you have to think about suspects at that point . When you have this kind of crime scene Now , we have to think about suspects and at the beginning from your crime scene that day forward , everybody's a suspect that knows Haley McCone . So the next thing we want to do , since we're not receiving any information , is theory usually is let's start with family members and work our way out , because family members know Haley , right , sure ? So we do a family background , we start looking at all the family members and there is some suspect in the family member tree , some suspect in the family member tree , and we interview extended family , probably three or four times , because we really feel like this may be the person .

Speaker 2 27:29

He gives us signs during the interviews that he's hiding something . We don't know what it is , so we still want to go at him . So we're going to work around him , since he's not being forthcoming with his information . So we're going to go ahead and check out all warrants . We're going to find out where he lived . If he didn't live in Lexington , we're going to find out any history we can . If it's out of state , we're going to try to find any information we can use during an interview . That makes him uncomfortable , so much so that he wants to get us off his chest and away from his house or out of the interview room , whichever place we interview , and away from his house or out of the interview room , whichever place we interview .

Speaker 3 28:04

And nothing , nothing , not a thing he was cleared .

Speaker 2 28:07

I think before we could decide he was cleared , other things happened in the case that started moving the case forward very rapidly .

Speaker 3 28:25

So you interviewed this person , extended family member .

Speaker 2 28:27

And then , when did your break come ? How long after ? Something presented itself , january in 2000 . Wow yeah , happy New Year .

Speaker 3 28:32

Hey , you know there's more to this story , so go find the next episode and listen .

Speaker 1 28:38

The Murder Police Podcast is hosted by Wendy and David Lyons and was created to honor the lives of crime victims , so their names are never forgotten . It is produced , recorded and edited by David Lyons , where you will find show notes , transcripts , information about our presenters and a link to the official Murder Police Podcast merch store , where you can purchase a huge variety of Murder Police Podcast swag . We are also on Facebook , instagram and YouTube , which is closed caption for those that are hearing impaired . Just search for the Murder Police Podcast and you will find us . If you have enjoyed this podcast , please subscribe for more and give us five stars and a written review . On Apple Podcasts or wherever you download your podcasts , make sure you set your player to automatically download new episodes so you get the new ones as soon as they drop , and please tell your friends .

Speaker 3 29:38

Lock it down , Judy .