The Murder of Haley McHone Part 3

The 1999 murder of 13 year old Haley McHone in Lexington Kentucky by rail-riding serial killer Tommy Lynn Sells.  Part 3 summarizes the prosecution strategy regarding Tommy Lynn Sells, discussed by Ray “The D.A.” Larson.

Show notes can be found HERE.

Transcript (please forgive minor errors):

David:

Warning, the podcast you're about to listen to may contain graphic descriptions of violent acts and injury. Listener discretion is advised.

Wendy:

Welcome to the Murder Police Podcast.

Wendy:

Well, we're back again. David, won't you tell me where we left off on episode two?

David:

When we finished that one we had just learned who the killer was and got amazing details from Detective Schoonover when he interviewed that serial killer, it was fantastic. And on this next episode what we're going to finish off with for this one is the legal process, a really good discussion about how this was handled through the court case, and inevitably what happened to Tommy Lynn Sells.

Det. Chris Schoonover:

With Tommy Lynn Sells, and people like him, you can't put your brain in their thought pattern because they don't don't think the same as every normal human being.

David:

Absolutely, absolutely.

Ray:

So did you arrest him?

Det. Chris Schoonover:

He was already arrested, so this is where you come in. I come back with the recorded, I would say admission, and with a swab of his DNA, and I present the case to your office.

Ray:

And you had assurance that he wasn't going to get out?

Det. Chris Schoonover:

Yes, he was in Texas, and he was charged with murder of a teenage girl and an attempted murder of a brave 10 year old, and we'll get to that later, hopefully you'll ask me about her. So I come back to you, I present the case to you, and much like another case that you handled you said, "Well let's see what Texas does, because I like their legal process. We'll talk to the family, see what's best for the family in this situation, and you'll get back with me, it's on you now." That's your exact words.

David:

It always is that way.

Wendy:

Well speaking of the girl, I have to, not ruin, but as I've told you, I've been so interested in this case ever since I learned about it, I just couldn't fathom a lot of the things that I had read in one of the books on him, and researching some of the stuff online, the videos of him and his interviews with various people. I found a video on that girl as a young adult, the 10 year old, and she described when he came in that room, you're right, she was hoping that he wouldn't see her, and he turned back to give one last look and that's when he caught her glance, and she said he just told her, "Get your hands up, move your hands," and she put them up by her head like he told her to do, and he just slit her throat and left.

Wendy:

And the interviewer asked her, "What was his demeanor?" And she said, "It was very flat." He had just no look in his eyes and he did it, he didn't seem angry, and she said, "I watched him kill my friend at the bottom of the bunk bed, and he had no expression, just none, and he slit her throat and walked off."

David:

Was he like that when you interview him, kind of flat, did he look nervous like oh, I'm caught?

Det. Chris Schoonover:

No. In my very honest opinion he enjoyed the attention. He knew he was going somewhere, as far as fame. Does that make sense?

David:

Absolutely.

Wendy:

Well, and you needed him at that moment.

Det. Chris Schoonover:

Right.

Wendy:

You needed to hear what he had to say. And in reading about him, and he did have a horrendous childhood, and I'm by no means using that as an enabling factor for him to do what he did, but I often thought

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Transcript

Murder Police Podcast

Speaker 1 0:00

If you have been looking for a realistic true crime experience , you just found it . Get ready for true crime with real detectives on the Murder Police Podcast .

Speaker 2 0:10

Okay , well , he was charged in Lexington .

Speaker 3 0:15

Yes , he was by your office , okay .

Speaker 2 0:18

But he was never brought back to answer those charges .

Speaker 3 0:22

He wasn't to answer those charges . He wasn't and because you spoke with the family and us and felt it'd be better off he'd be left in Texas .

Speaker 2 0:31

Well , texas is tough on the death penalty . They were a state where they seek the death penalty and the death penalty is given by a jury . Texas carries it out .

Speaker 4 0:51

Warning the podcast you're about to listen to may contain graphic descriptions of violent assaults , murder and adult language . Listener discretion is advised . Welcome to the Murder Police Podcast the Murder of Haley McCone , part 3 of 3 , with your hosts Wendy and David Lyons .

Speaker 3 1:33

You can't put your brain in their thought pattern , because they don't think the same as every normal human being .

Speaker 1 1:40

Absolutely , absolutely .

Speaker 2 1:43

So did you arrest him .

Speaker 3 1:46

He was already arrested . So this is where you come in . I come back with the recorded what I would say admission and with a swab of his DNA , and I present the case to your office .

Speaker 2 1:59

And you had assurance that he wasn't going to get out .

Speaker 3 2:02

Yes , he was in Texas and he was charged with murder of a teenage girl and attempted murder of a brave 10-year-old and we'll get to that later . Hopefully you'll ask me about her . So I come back to you . I present the case to you and , much like another case that you handled , you said , well , let's see what Texas does , because I like their legal process . We'll talk to the family , see what's best for the family in this situation and you'll get back with me . It's on you now . That's your exact words .

Speaker 1 2:32

It always is that way .

Speaker 4 2:34

Well , speaking of the girl I have to kind of not ruin .

Speaker 4 2:38

But you know , as I told you , I've been so interested in this case ever since I learned about it I just couldn't fathom a lot of the things that I had read in one of the books on him and , researching some of the stuff online the videos of him and his interviews with various people , I found a video on that girl as a young adult , the 10-year-old , and she described when he came in that room , you're right , she was hoping that he wouldn't see her and he turned back to give one last look .

Speaker 4 3:12

And that's when he caught her glance and she said he just told her get your hands up , move your hands , and she put them up by her head , like he told her to do , and he just slit her throat and left . And she just put him up by her head , like he told her to do , and he just slit her throat and left . And she just . The interviewer asked her what was his demeanor and she said it was very flat . He had just no look in his eyes when he did it , he didn't seem angry and she said I watched him kill my friend at the bottom of the bunk bed and he had no expression , just none , and he slit her throat and walked off .

Speaker 1 3:44

Was he like that ? When you interviewed him kind of flat , did he look nervous like oh , I'm caught .

Speaker 3 3:49

No , In my very honest opinion , he enjoyed the attention . He knew he was going somewhere . As far as fame Does that make sense , absolutely .

Speaker 4 4:00

Well , and you needed him at that moment . Right , you needed to hear what he had to say . And you know , in reading about him and he did have a horrendous childhood and I'm by no means using that as an enabler factor for him to do what he did but I often thought , the more I read , he's reaching out for that attention and so I feel like that . Maybe he thought you needed him at that moment and he's in control . It seems like everything was about control with him . Put your hands up , the girl put them up , he cut her throat . So , or the guy who didn't follow the rule . It seems like everything I've read about Tommy Lynn . He wanted control in every situation and if you don't follow his control or his rules , you pay the price .

Speaker 3 4:49

That's very accurate . Personality-wise , and Tommy Lynn sells rules . That's very accurate .

Speaker 2 4:55

Well , let's talk about . He was charged with murder in Texas . Was he charged with additional murders in Texas ?

Speaker 3 5:05

I'm glad you asked that question because the next day after I talked to the ranger , I got a call from my supervisor that said no , you can't stay out there , I need you back as soon as possible . So the ranger gets all the credit for following up on Tommy Lynn Settle's later confession . He had a rapport with Tommy , I think that nobody else had , and Tommy ended up leading him to other bodies . Now the other bodies one or two came up during the legal process of him going to trial with Katie Harris's death , and then he was sentenced to death and then all of a sudden , as normal , uh , these criminals . Hey , I have another body I want to show you . And so he would take the ranger to another location and sure enough , there'd be a body there and that would postpone his execution and he knew what he was doing .

Speaker 3 6:00

Um , some of the social media things and excerpts you'll see Tommy in . He says things that are cliche . I think that he's learned over the years that people that are like him would say , knowing his personality , one-on-one with him , I know it's just him to gain fame , okay .

Speaker 2 6:20

Well , he was charged in Lexington .

Speaker 3 6:24

Yes , he was by your office , okay .

Speaker 2 6:27

But he was never brought back to answer those charges .

Speaker 3 6:31

He wasn't , and because you spoke with the family and us and felt it'd be better off he'd be left in Texas .

Speaker 2 6:40

Well , texas is tough on the death penalty . They were a state where they seek the death penalty and the death penalty is given by a jury . Texas carries it out , and typically in a much shorter fashion it was very short , yeah . And so , as a result , we make a decision , I made a decision , so he's charged here and you want to charge him because you want some sort of resolution of the case that's the Haley-McCone case . But let's leave the penalty to Texas , where we're more comfortable that they're going to deal with it the way it should . And if you bring a guy back to be arraigned , like Tommy Lynn sells , what you end up doing is you have to transport him , chance he can escape and and when he gets here he starts filing some kind of motions not to go back to Texas . So the legal , the best move legally , is to leave him there . And it turned out to be a good decision because they scorched him Smoke him if you got him .

Speaker 3 8:05

Right and , if I recall , the other issue that we discussed at your office was there was a family in Indiana that they had discovered that he had murdered and you said well , we have to be in line , so let's wait and see . When these homicides occur , homicide occurred and then we'll get in line and see if we need to bring him here . In the meantime , we'll leave him in Texas and you'll make contact with the other states to see what the best situation is .

Speaker 2 8:32

Well , you don't want to bring a serial murderer , you don't want to transport them because there's too many possibilities of bad things happening . So , and Texas did their job , Do we have any idea ?

Speaker 1 8:48

Talk about time because it's quick . You're right , seven years , yeah .

Speaker 2 8:52

And in most places it's well . In Kentucky , hell , there are people on death row now , and the leading cause of death on Kentucky's death row is old age . Exactly , exactly .

Speaker 4 9:05

Well , I think , in talking about the family in Ida , illinois that you were referencing , that was horrific , I think I don't . I often wonder how many other things are out there that Tommy Lynn did that just nobody ever knew , or maybe he had forgotten about in his alcohol induced states .

Speaker 3 9:25

I do know that , having access to some legal information , I do know that he still his DNA is still being tested on older cold case crimes Out in California is one location where they've wanted to test his DNA for certain crimes out there and in other situations as well .

Speaker 1 9:43

Let me ask this and Ray , this goes to you too , and maybe we don't know did we ever get an impression in Texas that he was trying to delay that Because some of these guys will play that game of well , if you don't cook me , I'll take you to three more ? Are you aware of anything ?

Speaker 2 9:59

Oh , if you'll take the death penalty off the table , I'll tell you ?

Speaker 1 10:03

Oh , that happens , I didn't know if he had tried that , but I know that's a common thing . Well , guess what ? I didn't know if he had tried that , but I know that's a common thing .

Speaker 2 10:09

Well , guess what , when you got a good , solid death penalty case , go with it and don't sit around and start doing all of the bargaining with guys , because you said it , they lie .

Speaker 4 10:26

So you wrap this up , you figure out that he's your guy and you come back and do you just kind of keep following it when you come back , or what's the next step in that process ?

Justice System and Victim Advocacy

Speaker 3 10:36

I do . What a lot of people don't understand is the arrest is really the beginning of the hard work . You've put the pieces together , so now what you have to do is make it presentable so a jury will understand it , and you have to present it to the Commonwealth Attorney's Office . Then Mr Larson will assign himself or another assistant Commonwealth attorney and they will walk you through what they need in court . What's confusing is what you need for an arrest to charge Tommy Lynn Sells with murder is totally different than what you would need for a conviction in the courtroom in Fayette County . So you want to have several meetings with Ray's office and they're going to go through your case file , which is documented You're always documenting and if they find something that needs to be done , they're going to assign you a to-do list so they can get a conviction in the courtroom .

Speaker 3 11:30

Which means I may have to go back to the family member and say Tommy Lynn Sells tells me he was here this afternoon in the park on Elizabeth Street . Where were you ? Why didn't you see your daughter on the bike and were you home when she got home from school ? Can you say she was over at the park . So you have another series of interviews you're going to have to go through , as well as the to-do list that Mr Larson's office is providing you and any serving subpoenas . If the sheriffs can't do that for witnesses in a trial . You have to go through all that and prepare and prepare and prepare for trial .

Speaker 4 12:07

So did you have to go back to Texas again when all of this arrest work began .

Speaker 3 12:11

I did not Based on Mr Larson's decision on waiting to see where we land in the lineages of crimes that Tommy Lynn Sells had committed . We were waiting and lo and behold , we found out that they were going to seek the death penalty trial for the death of Katie Harris and the attempted murder of Crystal Searles .

Speaker 2 12:32

So did you follow the execution of Tommy Lynn Sales ?

Speaker 3 12:37

I definitely did , and I also David kept in contact with me the whole time . We talked about the case several times together and found out that he was going to be executed in 2014 . We didn't know the date and we heard that it was going to be April 3rd . So we kind of watched the news to see if that was actually true . And lo and behold , on April 3rd 2014 , tom Allen Sells was executed in the state of Texas .

Speaker 1 13:06

What method did they use on him ?

Speaker 3 13:08

Lethal injection .

Speaker 2 13:12

Texas . What method did they use on him ? Lethal injection . You know all of the never-ending appeals over the lethal injection . Has to do with the number , with the injection that supposedly puts them to sleep before they inject what will cause their death . And they say that first injection is painful . And I used to get those calls on the radio . Somebody called me up and says , isn't that painful ? I mean , isn't that awful ? And I said , hey , buckaroo , you ever had a colonoscopy ? And they'll say , well , yeah . And I said do you remember them putting you to sleep ? He says no , nothing bothered me . I said why don't we vote to use whatever they do for a colonoscopy ? And so we all agreed with that . But that would have been appealed . That would be appealed as well .

Speaker 3 14:05

That could be your next bumper sticker as well , for Ray the DA .

Speaker 1 14:09

Well , that's what's holding us up in Kentucky , if I remember correctly , is the fight over the drugs , and you know they use arguments like well , I heard him snore and that's cruel and unusual . It indicates they're not passing away quickly enough .

Speaker 2 14:21

Well , I can , just I'll start cussing here shortly . Tell me about .

Speaker 4 14:26

Well , I have to reference something before we move on with your next . Tell me about . You know , and I hear . I agree . I hear the people say it's cruel and unusual . And me personally , this is just my opinion . That burns me up , because I think cutting a 13-year-old little girl's neck is very cruel and unusual , and I think strangling a little girl that's also 13 is cruel and unusual . And all of his other murders , well , they were cruel and unusual too . So I know that people in society want to say , well , this is cruel and unusual . Why are we doing this ? That hurts them . That first injection hurts them , but why are we forgetting about the victims ?

Speaker 2 15:09

Now here's what you're doing You're starting to get into the victim's rights business and how they really don't care whether it hurts them or not , and I personally don't care whether it hurts them or not . Pretty soon they're going to be out of here , and so I don't care . What I want to know is when we didn't have a trial in Lexington , kentucky , for the murder of Haley McComb , what does a detective spend so much time on this case ? What do you think ? What are you thinking ?

Speaker 3 15:47

Well , since I don't like to testify in court . What are you thinking ? Well , since I don't like to testify in court , I'm thinking that's great . No , in all seriousness , when you evaluate , you have to take each homicide case individually . It can't be a blanket decision for all of them , and what I mean by that is if the community is better served with the execution of Tommy Lynn's cells , then let's do that . If we think we can get more of a sentence here than in Idaho or Washington State , let's bring them here and take care of that , and I feel safe , speaking for all the detectives , that I think that , as a result , that's what they would rather do .

Speaker 2 16:26

Well , one of the . I've known lots and lots of prosecutors around the country and I think that the relationship between the homicide unit not the police department in general in Lexington and the prosecutors is probably the best that I've ever run into , and I was the vice president of the National District Attorneys Association and I heard such complaints from those men and women about working with their police department . That was just foreign to me . It just didn't—I mean hell , we're all on the same team . We're trying to accomplish the same thing . Now you said there's a difference between making an arrest and getting a conviction , and what you've got to think about , and that most people don't , is you'll get 12 people come in and make a jury . How many months did this case ?

Speaker 3 17:28

take you Estimate 10 months by the time we got the DNA back and after the interview of Tommy Lynn Sells .

Speaker 2 17:37

If we would have tried this case , it would have taken at least a week to try it , and just think about having to compress all of that information that took you 10 months to do and get a group of people that typically know nothing about it Give them that kind of information and then convince them that this guy did it and that he needs to suffer the consequences of his behavior . And that's hard to do sometimes , and you all are outstanding at telling the story of the crime , and you did so . At any rate . I got all the faith in the world in you guys . Thank you .

Speaker 4 18:22

Well , thank you , Chris again for coming . You have shared so much about this that I've just been dying to know , so I appreciate you sharing your experience with Tommy Lynn Sills .

Speaker 3 18:32

I've enjoyed being here . Thanks for letting me tell the story of Haley McCone .

Speaker 4 18:36

Well , we appreciate that . That's just bad . I hated hearing this story and my heart breaks for her family . Ray , as always , thank you for sharing . You're such a wealth of knowledge .

Speaker 2 18:51

Adios .

Speaker 4 18:52

Husband . Thank you .

Speaker 1 18:54

No , it was fantastic , and let me add too that her memorial is still intact and beautifully cared for in Floral Park . The Neighborhood Association actually put a granite monument years ago back there and they have it landscaped beautifully . I was up there maybe a month ago and maybe we'll put that in the show notes on this to give people an idea of what that looks like . So her memory goes on . It was her favorite park and those neighbors are still letting her memory live on .

Speaker 4 19:19

Well , rest in peace , Haley .

Speaker 1 19:23

The Murder Police Podcast is hosted by Wendy and David Lyons and was created to honor the lives of crime victims , so their names are never forgotten . It is produced , recorded and edited by David Lyons . The Murder Police Podcast can be found on your favorite Apple or Android podcast platform , as well as at MurderPolicePodcastcom , where you will find show notes , transcripts , information about our presenters and a link to the official Murder Police Podcast merch store where you can purchase a huge variety of Murder Police Podcast swag . We are also on Facebook , instagram and YouTube , which is closed caption for those that are hearing impaired . Just search for the Murder Police Podcast and you will find us . Hearing impaired Just search for the Murder Police Podcast and you will find us . If you have enjoyed this podcast , please subscribe for more and give us five stars and a written review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you download your podcasts . Make sure you set your player to automatically download new episodes so you get the new ones as soon as they drop , and please tell your friends .

Speaker 4 20:22

Lock it down , Judy .