The Murder of Michael Turpin Part 2

In February 1986, a slightly less-than-concerned wife called the Lexington Police in Lexington Kentucky, to report her 22-year-old husband, Michael Turpin, missing.

Officers responded to the apartment that the new couple shared, and found disturbing evidence, that led them to ask for the Homicide Unit to assist.

Then Homicide Unit Sergeant Fran Root responded.  His experiences at the scene triggered his intuition, and he and the investigators began an investigation that uncovered the results of a perfect storm of evil, formed when three awfully bad people conspire to submit to greed.

Join Fran Root and Ray “The DA” Larson for two episodes that deep dive into this case, deeper than the national TV shows and documentaries that have covered this over the years. 

David's book, True Crime and Consequences is FINALLY available!

This book explores the intricate and often controversial relationship between the true crime community and law enforcement. For  amateur sleuths, true crime fans, and social media detectives and cops everywhere.

http://truecrimeconsequences.com/

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FBQ4BT5Q

Do you have your copy of David's book True Crime and Consequences? Get your copy today at https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FBQ4BT5Q.

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Transcript

Uncovering Evidence in Cold Case

Speaker 1 0:00

He was there at the airport waiting and then she arrived on a flight , came into the concourse area , they met up and then together they walked to a designated place that the police had arranged for them to come to , a seated area in the bar area at the airport . The police had gone to quite a great length to control this environment completely . They had a particular table in the bar that they had equipped with listening devices , the ability to hear and record what was being said at that table .

Speaker 2 0:39

Warning the podcast you're about to listen to may contain graphic descriptions of violent assaults , murder and adult language . Listener discretion is advised . Welcome to the Murder Police Podcast the Murder of Trent DiGiro .

Speaker 1 0:53

Part 2 of 2 , with your hosts Wendy and David Lyons , and our got to the point where it kind of went cold .

Speaker 2 1:25

Another dead end Another dead end .

Speaker 1 1:43

So that kind of gets related directly to the shooting and that person was willing to provide it but just didn't necessarily want to be the witness that took the witness stand to tell the world about it .

Speaker 2 1:58

So the person wanted to remain anonymous and not involved , but wanted the information out there , Correct . So I guess if I were maybe in your shoes , I'd be thinking why now ? Why have you waited all these years and have you seen that before ? Do people just wait years before they come clean ?

Speaker 1 2:16

To be quite honest with you , I've seen that happen , not for this length of time .

Speaker 2 2:24

This was an extended period of time for someone to sit on that kind of information . Yeah , I would think . If you're going to hold it for nearly six years , why let it out ?

Speaker 1 2:28

now , but it kind of goes back to what Ray had said a few minutes ago . Trent's dad was always of the belief that someone knew something and that they would be willing to come forward with it at some point in time .

Speaker 1 2:49

Some point in time , periodically , the news media would broadcast little tidbits about well , it's the anniversary of the Trent DiGiro death and it was one of those that was aired that this person saw on TV and said to themselves something along the lines of I've got to tell somebody what I know , you know the parents deserve to know .

Speaker 3 3:07

Right .

Speaker 1 3:07

That's when this person made contact with this person that was a friend and was an attorney , provided the information and then that's when the attorney made the call and spoke with one of our investigators .

Speaker 1 3:21

The attorney calls into the police department , speaks with one of our investigators who's on this case and provides information that his client is a former girlfriend of an individual and that within a period of time shortly after the offense , this individual had told her that he was the one responsible for shooting Trent . There was a small piece of information also provided that the weapon had been taken after the fact by this suspect's father for safekeeping or for concealment or for whatever purpose unknown . That information was specific enough that it dealt directly with the crime , that we felt like it had to be followed upon . But that information is considered stale because of the age of it . It had to be refreshed . We kind of came up with a game plan that said , if this person that's providing the information is willing and able to make contact with this suspect and meet and actually have a conversation with him again , that goes over and has him repeat what he told previously , that that would make the evidence much stronger than having evidence that's several years old .

Speaker 1 4:51

If there was a way to legally secure the weapon in question , then that could add to it as well because , you know , the possibility is there that testing the weapon to the evidence collected at autopsy could help tie an individual to the crime . The investigative effort basically involved number one , convincing this witness to come forward , because at that point she was extremely reluctant . There was some apprehension we're talking about someone who had , by a lot of people's terminology , killed someone in cold blood and because of that there was some apprehension on her part about coming forward . But through the course of several conversations she agreed to do that . The investigators put together a plan where she would contact this suspect and say that she was traveling through Lexington with her work and would love to see him and catch up . She did that . She made the call , she made the arrangements , she flew in to Lexington .

Speaker 1 6:04

They met at Bluegrass Airport and in a common area that law enforcement had taken the steps to plant surveillance equipment so they were able to record their conversation and during the course of that conversation he to a degree acknowledged telling her what she had said . He had told her . He never came right out and said it again . But he acknowledged having that conversation with her and then finally , at one point , began expressing fear that he was being set up , even to the point of asking her are you setting me up ? I'm getting an uneasy feeling here . What are you doing ?

Speaker 2 6:49

Okay , so help me understand . So she lures him , or convinces him , rather , to meet her on the pretenses that she's back in town and it's been a long time , it's been years . I just want to catch up , kind of thing , right , correct , old girlfriend , let's see how each other's been years . I just want to catch up , kind of thing , right , Correct , old girlfriend , let's see how each other's been . I guess this was for social media . So if you wanted to meet , you had to catch up , you had to do it the old fashioned way in person . So I guess , does she arrive or does he arrive and say , hey , I'm here now , or how do they make that connection ?

Speaker 1 7:19

He was there at the airport waiting and then she arrives on a flight came into the concourse area .

Speaker 1 7:27

They met up and then together they walked to a designated place that the police had arranged for them to come to , a seated area in the bar area at the airport . The police had gone to quite a great length to control this environment completely . They had a particular table in the bar that they had equipped with listening devices , the ability to hear and record what was being said at that table . They had taken the steps to actually have all the other seats in the bar occupied .

Speaker 2 8:01

Yes , I was going to say how do they know where to sit , or is every table wired ?

Speaker 1 8:05

Well , even to the point that there were a couple of investigators that were in there seated at this wired table , and when they approached , these two got up and left , which left that one table open for them to sit at .

Speaker 2 8:17

So we're going to sit wherever we can , because now there's an open table here .

Speaker 1 8:19

So the police took great pains to control the environment , to control placement so that they would be sure that the conversation that took place was . They were able to hear it to some degree for her safety .

Speaker 2 8:35

But also to get the evidence component as well .

Speaker 1 8:39

So they did that and they were able to obtain the recording , and that recording becomes critical to solving this investigation .

Speaker 2 8:48

And I imagine he's probably wondering after all these years we're here to catch up . Why are you bringing that up again ? You know , if I were he I would think here we go again . I was hoping she forgot about this , or hoping it wouldn't come back to haunt me , because I've been in the clear for all these years now .

Speaker 1 9:05

Well , at some point I think that must have dawned on him , because he did start questioning her motives to the extent of saying I'm starting to get a bad vibe here . You know , you're not setting me up , are you ?

Speaker 2 9:17

Oh , I bet .

Speaker 1 9:17

So yeah , I mean it did come to a , I guess , a possible realization on his part that there was something a little odd about the time lapse the conversation . Something made him a little bit apprehensive . Yeah and here we go again back to this . Yeah , but the recording of that conversation became what I would consider to be a critical piece of evidence , and in this case , as it moved forward .

Speaker 1 9:41

There had been conversation that the suspect had had with this witness about the weapon .

Speaker 1 9:50

But again that evidence was stale , it was old and in order to pursue it and to try to recover that weapon the police had to take steps to refresh or get evidence to give them the right to be looking for it legally . The weapon was considered to be potentially a piece of critical evidence . Through the course of the investigation the police investigators obtained a search warrant and through the course of searching found a .243 caliber rifle , collected their rifle and did as they do any piece of evidence . They booked it in , transported it to the Kentucky State Police Crime Lab where a ballistics examination was done . The end result of that examination is that the bullet that was recovered at autopsy , the markings on those fragments were consistent with the weapon that the police had recovered . But the ballistics examiner was not able to say with absolute certainty that that gun had fired the shot . But it was somewhat tangible in that it was consistent and could have been fired . And that's the first weapon that we provided to the lab for testing that we got that kind of result on .

Speaker 3 11:02

You had provided a number of other 243 rifles and they came back and said it was not fired from these . Yes , and this is the only one that was consistent with being fired from this weapon .

Speaker 1 11:17

That's right .

Speaker 3 11:18

Okay .

Speaker 2 11:18

That's right . So now , what is this person , this suspect , during this time ? I'm assuming he knows that you're retrieving these weapons Is he just not having much to say ? Or have you interviewed at this point to say , hey , we're going to do a search , or what happens in that process ?

Speaker 1 11:37

He had not been interviewed up to that point , but he was encountered during the course of the search and was actually taken into custody on other charges . There was an interview conducted after that and the interview was basically a denial of any involvement .

Speaker 4 11:55

Did he offer up any kind of alibi or anything ?

Speaker 1 11:58

Well , his story changed a little bit from the beginning to the end of it . I think at one point he wasn't at home so he wasn't there . He acknowledged that he knew the victim . He acknowledged that he did in fact live a few doors down the street , couldn't remember if it was at the time the shooting occurred or before or after , just didn't remember occurred or before or after , just didn't remember . He recalled at one point during the interview that he thought he was maybe playing cards with an individual . So he provided some information police could use to either prove or disprove his story . But he never made an admission of guilt .

Speaker 2 12:40

Now , was he a local or another student , or just one of these mysterious tunnel people ?

Speaker 1 12:45

No , he was a student at the time of the shooting .

Speaker 2 12:48

So same school as Trent .

Speaker 1 12:50

Right .

Speaker 2 12:50

So now Dan , who was this person ?

Speaker 1 12:54

He was a student at the university , his name is Shane Ragland , and he and this person that brought the information forward had dated for a period of time around the time that the shooting occurred . So he was acquainted with Trent and some other friends .

Speaker 2 13:18

So I'm imagining University of Kentucky is a relatively good-sized campus , so they just knew each other from classes , or just friends , dorm mates . What was their situation , that they knew each other ?

Speaker 1 13:31

Well , we actually determined that Shane had pledged a fraternity at the university and that there was another individual who was good friends with Trent who had pledged that same fraternity . So they came to know each other through their pledging and , of course then Trent got introduced to him through that relationship . You know , there was knowledge of who each other was .

Speaker 2 14:02

At the time of the shooting , shane lived a couple of doors down from where trent lived but at this point you're not thinking there's been any animosity or any arguing over a girlfriend or anything like that no part of the information that we were given by this former girlfriend was that the motive had to do with this fraternity .

Speaker 1 14:26

But it was somewhat vague the information was because there wasn't a lot of information that she knew about it . But it did kind of point in the direction of that . So the investigation then kind of took on a little bit of steam in that it gave the investigators a place to go to start looking to see what happened . Information that former girlfriend had given was that Shane was not allowed to become a part of the fraternity because of an altercation that had taken place . So the police followed up on that .

Speaker 2 14:59

They pursued that lead and now an altercation with Trent or with just another person .

Speaker 1 15:04

Both , actually Both , and not so much an altercation with Trent but a conversation . But again , that information was really kind of limited coming from the ex-girlfriend . There just wasn't a lot of detail that she could provide in that regard . The investigators began looking into that particular component and , given the information that they had gathered up to that point from the evidence , they felt like they had a pretty good place to start , but understanding the motive completely was not they just didn't understand what the motive was completely .

Speaker 1 15:38

They had some things to look at , but they just didn't really know for sure what the motive was .

Speaker 2 15:42

Right and you'd certainly think it's some large motive to kill someone over . You know whether it's a verbal disagreement .

Speaker 1 15:50

I guess it would make me think there's ability to talk to people , to pursue leads , to ask specific questions of people a meeting , but an opportunity where Trent and this other fellow that had pledged the fraternity , that was , friends and Shane , were together and they were at the fraternity house and some comment was made about the picture of a girl that was in the room .

Speaker 2 16:39

We will be right back after this important message we want to share .

Speaker 4 16:45

In the wake of the senseless and evil act that took young Trent DeGiro's life , his family created the Trent DeGiro Foundation to keep his name alive and to help students succeed . As stated so well on the foundation's website , the Trent DeGiro Foundation was established to raise funds for and make contributions to various educational scholarship funds and scholarships in the name of Trent DeGero . The foundation is dedicated to keeping Trent's memory alive . All proceeds are used to support scholarships at three high schools in Oldham County , kentucky , and at the University of Kentucky . The foundation website can be found at tDegeroFoundationorg and we will put a link to this on our show notes , which are located at MurderPolicePodcastcom . Do us a favor and spend some time at the Foundation website and , more importantly , consider making a donation to this very worthy cause to help keep Trent in our collective memories . Now back to the podcast .

Investigation and Trial of Shane Ragland

Speaker 1 17:51

And apparently it was a comment that the girl's boyfriend eventually took offense at . This boyfriend confronted Shane . There was a physical altercation over it and it just kind of . It was kind of like the physical altercation and then the information that came about from that that Shane actually got denied membership in the fraternity because of that . The reports have kind of been that he was . The word that's been used is blackballed from the fraternity . But , I can just simply say that he was denied membership .

Speaker 2 18:28

So I guess I would think , if the girlfriend , if the boyfriend of the girl was not Trent , I'm guessing why would he go after Trent instead of the boy that he had the altercation with ?

Speaker 1 18:40

Well , the investigative leads took us to the other fellow that had pledged the fraternity and what we learned was that Shane had , at some point in time after the fact , quite a bit of time after the fact had approached this guy and had confronted him about did you tell him what I said ? And apparently it was a situation where , like I'd said before , shane was kind of his friend protector .

Speaker 1 19:08

And he kind of stepped in and said actually it was me that did it . If you've got a problem with it , you got the problem with me and nothing happened . It kind of felt like investigators kind of felt like that . That was a situation where maybe he took offense to being called out on it and being said you know , if you've got a problem with what was said , here I am and he didn't do anything .

Speaker 2 19:31

Wow .

Speaker 1 19:32

We kind of felt like at that point the motive was a revenge type situation .

Speaker 2 19:38

So then you've all have interviewed him at this point and he's just , I guess , obviously denying having done this , when do you go from there ? He's denying Do you have to let him go ? Where does that take you ?

Speaker 1 19:51

Well , I mean , the evidence was , you know , it was coming together . There were other people that were interviewed that provided information that was relevant , and we had what we felt like was a pretty good case , and , of course , the decision as to how do you proceed with it , at what point do you proceed , is , in part , made not only by the police , but by the prosecutors as well . So there was always starting to be conversations about how do we , you know , are we there yet ? That type of thing .

Speaker 2 20:22

So I guess and he's released at this point he's not being detained or anything . It was just merely an interview with him .

Speaker 1 20:29

No , I mean , I think he was actually charged at that point and then he was subsequently charged with this crime and was bonded out . So , yeah , he didn't stay in jail very long .

Speaker 4 20:39

Let me go back to that statement that he made . I think he alibied himself . If somebody talks to you , is there value in a suspect lying like there's a value in them telling the truth ? What's the process and does it still help you with the case ?

Speaker 1 20:51

Well , I mean , if you can prove that someone has intentionally , knowingly lied to you , then that's . I mean , I've always felt as an investigator that that was as good evidence as someone admitting it . And in some instances when that happens , it kind of gives other individuals , whether they be someone reading about it in the news or sitting in a jury box , kind of gives them the impression that there's not a lot of remorse there , that they're still continuing to lie .

Speaker 4 21:17

Where would you go from here ? When he does take the filing , he takes the murder charge . What's it look like after that and what happens with the case ?

Speaker 1 21:24

Shane's bond was set really high , like a million dollars Right , and that bond was posted pretty quickly . I mean he wasn't in jail for an extended period of time after he was charged on the indictment .

Speaker 3 21:35

So then we do you have any idea how long it was before the case went to trial ? Several years .

Speaker 2 21:43

So you're saying there was a million-dollar bond and he bonded out ?

Speaker 1 21:47

Right , that's right .

Speaker 2 21:47

yes , so then what happens ? He bonds out and just waits on a trial .

Speaker 1 21:52

Well , at that point , once that charge is placed , it goes to the prosecutor's office . Basically the burden for lack of a better term shifts over to the prosecutor's office to begin preparing for trial . At that point in the police department , investigators do whatever they can do to support the prosecutor . If the prosecutor decides they need someone else interviewed , then the police would go do that interview . If they need to pull records , for whatever reason , then the police would go pull it . We become the support staff for the prosecutor's office For the prosecutors .

Speaker 1 22:26

And that's basically what happened Once the indictment was returned and the charge was placed . Then the responsibility of how it progressed from there shifts over to the prosecutor's office .

Speaker 2 22:35

So then , Ray , that then fell into your lap .

Speaker 3 22:38

That's exactly right .

Speaker 3 22:39

So I guess had you been following this I know Lexington's not a huge , huge town- and so had you kind of been following it and you're thinking , well , we finally got a break in this . Well , yes , I've been following it . We work very closely with the police department in these kind of cases and we've been kept up to date on everything that they've done or were planning to do , on everything that they'd done or were planning to do . And when it comes to preparing for a trial , there is a lot of preparation that goes on . You can ask Danny and any of the other homicide detectives how many hours they spend preparing to testify .

Speaker 3 23:22

Because you have to choreograph a trial like this , because you get jurors who are really not supposed to know anything about it , so you have to tell a story that they can understand and that , after all is said and done , you hope that you've proven the case beyond a reasonable doubt and they convict . Now , danny was one of the top detectives we dealt with and , as you can tell from his talking about investigating this case , this trial was a big deal in town . It was very highly publicized and it was hard to get a jury . You know what you , when you select a jury , you want people that really don't know anything about the case or clearly have not made up their mind about it , and this one was publicized just all over all the time .

Speaker 2 24:21

Well , they've been national TV , so it sounds like it was a big one At any rate .

Speaker 3 24:26

It went to trial and it took 17 days to try this case and the jury returned to . They convicted Shane Ragland of murder and he was sentenced to 30 years by the jury . Well , and they appealed it , of course , and one of the issues on appeal was the fact that we had used a new test that had been created by the FBI . It was called a bullet lead test , and you compare the amount of lead in the bullet with other shells that they found the bullets they found during the search warrant . And in the process of that appeal , the FBI then decided that this bullet lead test was not reliable , and so that just pulled the rug out from under our conviction because we'd presented bullet lead evidence , and so the case was reversed . Now here's the dilemma I had told the ex-girlfriend , who was terrified of Shane Ragland and did not want to appear and testify- Well , and rightfully so .

Speaker 2 25:47

She was basically wired and unbeknownst to him , and so she's thinking she's probably going to have to face him again .

Speaker 3 25:55

Well , so the case was reversed and it was time to get to think about retrying this case to think about retrying this case .

Speaker 3 26:06

The difficulty was , the ex-girlfriend was so terrified to get involved in this thing at all that I told her . I said look , if you'll just testify this time , I promise you will never , ever have to do this again . Well , guess what ? It was reversed and it was set for retrial . And , danny , I don't think we would have had much luck if we hadn't had the ex-girl testify to you . No , I don't . That's where we were . Now the question simple is my word good or not ? The ex-girlfriend relied on it . I talked to the defense lawyer and he said we want a trial , we're not taking anything , we're not going to plead guilty to anything . And I said okay , get ready , buckaroo , we're going to trial . Get ready , buckaroo , we're going to trial . He said well , let me talk to my client again . And he came back and he said we will plead guilty to manslaughter in the second degree , with a recommendation of eight years , which meant he had to serve a little more time before he got out .

Speaker 2 27:21

How much had he served at this point , before bonding out ?

Speaker 3 27:25

Oh not much A couple of days . So the bottom line is and this is very important to family members of victims they want the person who killed their son or daughter or loved one to admit it , because at this point he had denied anything to do with the death of Trent DeGiro . And then in court he pled guilty to manslaughter in the second degree and the judge specifically asks did you shoot Trent DeGiro ?

Speaker 2 28:03

And he said yes .

Speaker 3 28:05

Oh , it was a low yes , but he said it . Now , that's important stuff . That was not the best ending in this thing , but at least this bad guy was convicted .

Speaker 2 28:18

So did he serve those eight years . Yeah , he served eight years he served the eight years . I guess from a family standpoint I would think we went for six years and knew nothing and you're just serving barely above that and you're out and you're done .

Speaker 3 28:38

Well , make no mistake . Make no mistake . The DeGiro family , the police department and the prosecutors aren't happy with the result .

Speaker 2 28:50

Wow , so he served eight years . So a mere eight years . Is that ? The only justice this family got is knowing that their son's murderer served eight years .

Speaker 1 29:09

That's it From the criminal side . That is it . But there was a lawsuit that was filed that actually ended up in an award for Trent's estate . There was an amount of money that was awarded by the court after hearing the facts for the destruction of his power earned . They were reimbursed for funeral expenses . His estate was , and then there were punitive damages that were awarded . When it all comes down to it the lawsuit the award was in excess of $63 million .

Speaker 2 29:39

Wow , and rightfully so . The family deserved every penny of that and more , and that really doesn't even replace your loss , yeah .

Speaker 1 29:49

And I mean I've heard Trent's father talk about it and he's repeatedly said it's not about the money .

Speaker 2 29:57

No .

Speaker 1 29:57

It's not about me or Trent or anyone in Trent's family having the money . It's about making sure that someone else doesn't have .

Speaker 2 30:06

Sure , yeah , I mean , because what kind of price tag can you put on your child's life ? I certainly wouldn't take a hundred million if someone offered me that in lieu of my child's life . I think at the end of the day , I'm grateful , I think they're grateful and they rightfully are owed the money , but still that's a slap in the face that they have no child because of someone's decision to kill , because they wanted retribution , because they didn't get their way , or they were angry , what have you ?

Speaker 1 30:40

well , and you know that that's the case with not just this matter , but with every death that occurs . I mean that's the grief process of losing someone , and whether it's a person's life lost to the hands of someone who committed an assault , or whether it's because of someone's careless driving or whatever the facts might be , that loss is a loss . No matter what , no matter what caused it , it's still a loss . And you're right , money doesn't make it up .

Speaker 2 31:10

Right , so out walking free .

Speaker 3 31:13

Well , I don't know about that , but he's out .

Speaker 2 31:16

He's out of prison and the family still bears the grief of their loss of their son .

Speaker 3 31:22

The DiGiro family has created the Trent DiGiro Foundation . That does a lot of good things .

Qualities of a Homicide Investigator

Speaker 4 31:34

Okay , dan , kind of as we close out a little bit , I was curious , after you've got a lot of experience in death investigations some 13 years as an investigator and supervising investigators If there was somebody on a police department that was interested in getting to be a homicide investigator or death investigator , what advice would you give them to prepare for that , and what kind of traits and characteristics do you think are important for somebody in that role ?

Speaker 1 32:01

In my opinion , the main thing that they need to develop is a really sound technique of documentation . When you go to a situation where you have a case like this that goes on for so many years , even the smartest of people are probably going to forget intricate details that they learned four years ago , five years ago , six years ago . If they're not written down somewhere , they're going to forget them , and I find that that's probably a lot of times . You know , you'll see people that will feel very , very comfortable with the knowledge that they have at that given moment . But then a few years pass , or time passes , that memory fades a little bit and not only does the information go away , but they know there's something they're supposed to remember . They just don't know what it is . So then their confidence kind of starts to fall down . They just don't know what it is , so then their confidence kind of starts to fall down .

Speaker 1 33:00

I would say significant attention to documentation is one of the things , as a supervisor , that I would look for in someone considering bringing them in as an investigator in a homicide unit . Now , the other thing we talked about this before is you have to have some level of compassion . You have to be able to communicate clearly . You have to be able to use terminology that people understand and not get into constantly using police jargon Because , quite honestly , I mean police officers are around police officers all the time , every day , when they're at work , and there becomes a language that they use with each other that sometimes a lot of the civilians just don't understand .

Speaker 1 33:43

I would think good , clear communications , dealing with people with a great deal of compassion and understanding , like I said previously , that whatever you're talking to them about , that's the most important thing in their life and you need to remember that and you need to give that consideration when you're dealing with them . It just can't simply say your harassing communication is not nearly important enough for me to give it credible effort . So I think those are the primary things that I looked for when I brought people into a unit that investigates crimes of , you know , violence , basically .

Speaker 4 34:20

Exactly so . It's fair to say that if somebody was a patrol officer , they're being watched and their work is probably being watched right .

Speaker 1 34:26

And that was part of what we did back when I was supervising that unit . If the first officer on the scene , if he came and he had a and he expressed and he showed an interest in the case and learning more than I , had no problem at all requesting a temporary transfer for him to come into the unit to give him the opportunity to put forth his best foot , you know , to make sure that I had an opportunity to see who he was and was what I was seeing just a , you know , just a cursory effort on his part that would go away quickly , or was that who he was ? And we actually brought several people into the homicide unit based upon that approach . In fact , I think there was one fellow that came in as a result of this case , that came in and stayed for a while .

Speaker 4 35:09

Good to know . Ray , let me toss it at you as a prosecutor , because you're going to end up with that work that these people produce . What are you looking at and what do you want to see in a homicide investigator who brings a case to you ?

Speaker 3 35:19

The ability to communicate , because how they communicate with a jury is important . For example , if I would ask Danny a question , he'd listen to the question , looking at me , and then , when he answered , he'd look at the jury , and it's just those kind of little communication skills that are critical . Now you're talking about documentation . Every one of these detectives , when they come and take the witness stand , they bring with them a five or six inch thick notebook about the investigation and when a question comes up , they can find the spot in their documentation and answer the question . It's just and it's impressive to watch .

Speaker 2 36:07

Yeah , and I agree , ray . I think that those are great traits . If you have investigators that are you know , can reference their books and I can tell or I can see how , that certainly would be helpful in the courtroom . Aside of that , as a person that's not in law enforcement or prosecutor , if I were a victim's family , I think what would be most important to me would just be to have someone that listens , someone that wants to let me know that they are compassionate enough about me and my story to listen to me , because I feel like if you've lost someone , you have nothing . You don't even have an answer of who did it or why it was done .

Speaker 2 36:50

But to know that a detective is there for me , that he may not have an answer right now , but to be told that he's keeping up with my story , he hasn't forgotten me , he's doing all he can , I think that means a lot to the person . That that's all they have . That's all they have right now . Thank God that's not happened to me as a victim's family . But I think that I would have to say to detectives that want to be a homicide investigator listen to your people , listen to that family . They don't realize that you have other cases that are piling on , but to them , their case is the most important and they want to be heard and give their family a voice and that their family isn't forgotten . So , gentlemen , dan Ray , david , thank you all so much for your time and your input and your exceptional knowledge that you've shared with us today , and we appreciate it greatly , and we will see you on the next episode .

Speaker 4 37:53

The Murder Police Podcast is hosted by Wendy and David Lyons and was created to honor the lives of crime victims , so their names are never forgotten .

Speaker 4 38:11

It is produced , recorded and edited by David Lyons dot com , where you will find show notes , transcripts , information about our presenters and a link to the official Murder Police Podcast merch store , where you can purchase a huge variety of Murder Police Podcast swag . We are also on Facebook , Instagram and YouTube , which is closed caption for those that are hearing impaired . Just search for the Murder Police Podcast and you will find us . If you have enjoyed this podcast , please subscribe for more and give us five stars and a written review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you download your podcasts . Make sure you set your player to automatically download new episodes so you get the new ones as soon as they drop , and please tell your friends .

Speaker 1 38:53

Lock it down , Judy .